Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

[pinkfish]

Hello, I'm new to this forum, and have done a search but couldn't find anything really relating to this issue, although have found lots of useful stuff!

My company recently had to dismiss an employee who was on a 6 month probationary period, but due to numerous failings in his role, it was decided not to continue his employment with the company.

He is currently on garden leave for his week's notice, but is refusing to return the company car, until he has sought legal advice regarding the dismissal - he only had use of the car for the work & meetings undertaken for the business, it wasn't his or part of a scheme, others could use the car when needed.

My question therefore is - how to get the company property back?

[starukkiwi]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

I am sure others will give better advice - is this a contract hire vehicle? It sounds as though it was a Pool Car or did he pay through Payroll for his use? If a CH vehicle get that company involved

[pinkfish]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Thanks for your reply, tt is a pool car, on a lease through another company, but the employee wasn't paying anything towards the car.

[bluebottle]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

As such, he is still employed by the company, even though he is on what is termed gardening leave. You would be better to wait until the day after his last formal day of employment to recover the car, otherwise, you could be on a sticky wicket, legally. The reason for this is that because he is still, in the eyes of the law, employed by the company and still has lawful authority to have access to and use it. However, once the final day of formal employment comes to an end, he would no longer have lawful authority to have access to or use it.

Speaking as a retired policeman, reporting the car as stolen now or, even, attempting to recover it could result in the company risking litigation or, even, prosecution. It would be better to wait until the day after his last formal day of employment before attempting to recover the car. Be very careful indeed as to how you go about recovering the car, if you have to, as it is very easy to fall foul of the law, if you are not familiar with its peculiarities. If you take advice from a commercial lawyer, I would strongly advise you to also seek advice from a criminal lawyer. That way, you can avoid any risk of litigation and prosecution as far as is humanly possible.

[labman]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

This may be a ridiculous question, but once the employment is terminated, is there no reason why someone can't go with a spare set of keys and recover the car?

[pinkfish]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Thanks BlueBottle, some good advice there. What if the employee takes payment in lieu of their notice period?

[pinkfish]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

That's true we do have a spare set! But no sure what the legalities of that are?

[wales01man]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Not an expert but when they are no longer employed by the company they would not be insured to drive the car so would be unable to use the car,everthing must depend on the contract that should state they can use a car and whn?

[bluebottle]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

If you go now with a spare set of keys and drive off, the employee could report you to the police and if you encroach onto their driveway, hardstanding, etc., at their home, you would be trespassing and the employee would be entitled to use as much reasonable force as is necessary to remove you if you refuse or fail to leave.

You have said, previously, that the employee is on gardening leave, which would be counted as continuation of their employment up to and including the last day of formal employment. Then you mention pay in lieu of notice (PILON). If the company and the employee have agreed gardening leave and he has signed something to that effect, my gut-feeling is that the employee could hold you to it. The only way I can see forward, but you will need to seek competent professional legal advice before acting, is a compromise deal. This may be a less risky, albeit, possibly, a slightly more expensive way of resolving this matter.

[wales01man]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Bluebottle interesting about the trespassing does this apply to a bailiff who goes on a property to remove a car that was illegally clamped IE a car not belonging to a debtor im sure we read on here of such incidents?

[pinkfish]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Great, ok thanks very much, it's been really useful to get your opinions.

[bluebottle]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Great, ok thanks very much, it's been really useful to get your opinions.

From what you have said, Pinkfish, you would be better to play safe rather than go in gung-ho and risk everything.

[labman]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

They'd have to prove you went on their driveway. Without video footage or CCTV footage, how would they do this? I agree it would have to be done AFTER the gardening leave. Surely going to peacefully retrieve your own property must be lawful (especially if you ask a policeman to come with you, though they'd say it was a civil matter!)

[bluebottle]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Bluebottle interesting about the trespassing does this apply to a bailiff who goes on a property to remove a car that was illegally clamped IE a car not belonging to a debtor im sure we read on here of such incidents?

If a bailiff acts in contravention of the conditions endorsed on a warrant and the law, generally, any legal protection against trespass conferred by the warrant would be null and void. Legal protection conferred by a warrant only applies where the bailiff acts within the law at all times and in all respects.

Although Liability Orders for CT normally confer legal protection even if the bailiff is behaving like a total numpty, the bailiff would have to prove they were acting in strict accordance with the law, generally, in order for that protection to apply. If a car belonged to a third party, in my considered judgement, the bailiff would have no legal protection whatsoever.

So to answer your question, Wales, if the car belongs to a third party, not the debtor, and has been clamped, the bailiff is, in all probability, trespassing on land and against the vehicle and can be put on the pavement on their arse accordingly, if they refuse/fail to leave when asked to do so. Any tow truck driver would face the same fate. Both would be acting ultra vires.

What is funny, but only in cases of illegal seizures of motor vehicles, is telling a tow truck driver that their tow truck could end up being seized and destroyed by the courts. The look on their face is a picture. They can't seem to make their mind up whether to remove the vehicle or risk losing their tow truck for good.

[wales01man]

Re: Dismissed employee refusing to return company car

Thankyou Bluebottle are there any cases where bailiffs have been convicted for illegal clamping/removal?