Would this be constructive dismissal?

[Salesmanager41]

I am currently a Sales Manager in the recruitment industry. Whilst my office is not performing as well as it could be I have not been given specific set and agreed targets from my Directors.

My boss came to the office on Friday for a seperate matter but then said that there needed to be changes due to certain members of my team underperforming. From the two additional people on sales, one was on performance improvement but this has been put on hold and told the quality of what she is doing is great. The other is under performing compared to the other sales person and me as the top biller. I have been told that I must decide on one of the following three options.

"High Risk" (my boss's words not mine)

1) I stay in my position and everything works out ok because things improve
2) I stay in my position and if it doesn't work out the impact could be that everyone in my office loses their job and they possibly shut the office

"Low risk"

3) I take a demotion as I am a valued member of the office, I am the top biller.

I feel that due to the wording of my options they are looking to push me down the demotion route which in turn is something I possibly wouldn't be comfortable with and i think they would know this.

The question I have is this a suitable conversation for something that is out of the blue without any offer of someone else being there as a representative for me. Could this be construed as constructive dismissal.

Thanks in advance

[miliitant]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

first question

were any of the options given put in writing,email,etc

[Salesmanager41]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

They havent been put in writing. I have asked for the options to be put in writing and was told this morning that that would be fine and it would be emailed today to help me make a decision. Strangely I haven't received anything as yet.

[miliitant]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

well i would call it bullying and harassment so i am not surprised they did not put pen to paper

For an employee to claim constructive dismissal, demotion by their employer should have occurred without any disciplinary proceedings.

before resigning from your post. It may be that you may have to raise a grievance with your employer before resigning and claiming constructive dismissal

how long have you been employed for

[Salesmanager41]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

I haven't handed in my notice as yet. UI have been employed for 18 months by this employer

[miliitant]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

well in your position i would let the status quo continue and see if anything comes up in the future, if it does then the first thing to do if you are not happy is to raise a grievance to cover yourself at any possible employment tribunal

keep your thread updated as i am allways lurking

with 18 months service you are fine to put a claim before a tribunal

[Salesmanager41]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

Keep lurking away. Thanks for the advice up to now.

[Salesmanager41]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

I am now in the situation where I have been told that I am going to be put on performance management as of Thursday. I have not been offered representation or had a documented meeting explaining the intention of starting capability procedures (as per my company HR policy) I have however got an email stating that they will "continue to with the performance management unless I decide to take the offer of a consultant role which I will need to inform them of before the meeting on Thursday"

The failure of following procedure and the forcing of me to make a decision just leaves a bitter taste

[Salesmanager41]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

I am now in the situation where I have been told that I am going to be put on performance management as of Thursday. I have not been offered representation or had a documented meeting explaining the intention of starting capability procedures (as per my company HR policy) I have however got an email stating that they will "continue to with the performance management unless I decide to take the offer of a consultant role which I will need to inform them of before the meeting on Thursday"

The failure of following procedure and the forcing of me to make a decision just leaves a bitter taste

[Crowie]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

Hang on a mo, where I'd be raising a question here is the the statement that they will 'continue with performance management'. Nothing up to now has been documented, so they need to put their initial threat in writing.

Another thing, if I were you and your colleagues, if you're not already members of a union e.g. Unite then join one sharpish. The reason being that you need to be a member for 6m before they'll represent you in order to stop people joining and asking for help straight away.

I'd hope that some kind of proper representation would sort this out. I also suspect that a good employment lawyer would skin them alive in a tribunal.

One last point, I've mentioned this elsewhere in other posts, but PLEASE also check your home insurance policy. Often they have 'Legal Expenses Insurance' cover included, but nobody has a clue about this until it's too late. My understanding would be that you could use this cover to cover the cost of getting proper professional representation.

I've run a post here in line with my own unfair dismissal case, and I'd urge you to take a look at it.

Good luck and keep me posted..

[miliitant]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

The reason being that you need to be a member for 6m before they'll represent you

poppycock with all due respect

if this sinario did happen i would get the member to pay 12 months subs in advance and happy i managed to recruit a new member

just for the record

if a non member ask for the assistance of a union rep at a disciplinary, the rep cannot refuse.
though he will only be their to make sure the correct procedure has been followed, nothing else, or it will be classed as discriminatory in the eyes of the employer

people allways run scared of the costs issue at a tribunal

their are no costs unles the judge decides the claim is vexatious and that issue will be decided at the case management stage

[Crowie]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

With the greatest of respect, I'm going through an unfair dismissal tribunal case right now, and unite refused to help me because I hadn't been a member for 6m. Other unions may be different, and I'm only quoting my own experience.

To be honest, when it came down to it, Unite were no help to me whatsoever. I hope I'm in the minority. Luckily I've been able to secure proper professional legal representation via legal expenses cover on my house insurance otherwise I'd have been utterly screwed. No guarantee I'll win the case, but solicitor seems pretty positive

[Crowie]

Re: Would this be constructive dismissal?

Hi Militant.,

We may be at cross purposes here, this is isn't the place to get into an argument and in our own way, we're only trying to help Salesmanager 41.

I may not have been entirely clear in what I was saying. Unite would have represented me at my disciplinary hearings, although the local Rep couldnt attend due to other commitments on the dates scheduled. I used to work for one of the Banks, and surprise, surprise their union repas are pretty busy at the moment.

My gripe was that the Union wouldn't help with ANY of the legal work in preparation for the tribunal I have coming up, nor would they provide me with any representation at the hearing. Instead, I have had to source my own legal representation.

I understand that this would have been available had I been a fee-paying member to Unite for the previous 6m.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I am, then Unite are in line for a very unpleasant complaint letter.

In the meantime, I hope everything is going better Salesmanager 41. Good luck. Keep us posted.....