String of resignations

[CornishPasty]

Hi all,

On a different subject to my other threads, I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this one.

I recently left a job with a small company in Manchester because of a complete and utter inability to work with my immediate manager. This manager is a friend of the owner's.

This manager was brought in to help the struggling company about a year and a half ago.

Since then they have seen about half a dozen managers of my level come and go - all saying they absolutely couldn't work with this woman.

Her attitude was horrendous. She would treat the managers and other employees worse than dirt, undermine them, belittle them, ignore and insult them. She's a real demon of a woman.

In addition to a string of senior managers leaving, a number of lower-level managers and staff also left, all citing her as the reason.

She's kept around because she has close ties to another major business and that business is one of the biggest customers of the parent company of the business I worked with.

Nobody that I've mentioned above has worked for the business for more than a year so not sure they can do anything in terms of unfair dismissal etc., but I hate to think that this woman can get away with driving a dozen people in the space of a year or less out of their jobs.

My job with this company was a well paid one, but I was working insane hours. That said, I cared passionately about the business and treated it as if it were my own. I was very sad to have had to leave.

Is there anything that can be done legally, or is this just a clash of personalities kinda thing that you just have to put down to bad luck?

Thanks

[bluebottle]

Re: String of resignations

Hi Cornish,

I have no doubt that if you were to check this manager's hairline, you would find "666" there. Does she wear clothes by Prada, by any chance? Joking aside, this woman is a bully and your employers are in serious breach of the law allowing her to continue to behave in the way she has up to now unchecked. Your employers have a duty in law to ensure a safe working environment, safe working practices and must not expose you to unnecessary stress (Section 2, Health and Safety at Work Act 1974). This woman's behaviour amounts to harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. In the case of Mjrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005, it was ruled, by the Court of Appeal, that an employer is vicariously liable for the actions of an employee towards other employees that amount to harassment. It is for the employer and the bullying employee to prove their conduct does not amount to harassment. There are civil and criminal sanctions under the Act.

As I am sure you are aware, any claim for unfair or constructive dismissal against an employer must be brought within three months of the alleged incident, otherwise it is time-barred.

Despite what you think, there is something you can do about this manager's behaviour. The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) can impose Improvement Notices for a MINIMUM of 12 months on employers where there is evidence that an employer is not addressing issues relating to stress, including that caused by bullying. It may also be worth speaking to Jobcentre Plus about your former employer's failure to address this manager's behaviour and the number of staff who left because of it. Although they have no enforcement powers, as such, they can refuse to accept orders for their employment recruitment services from employers where there appears to be a high turnover of employees, especially if it is over a short period of time and there are no other reasons, like, redundancy. You might also like to consider speaking to ACAS who can give you free and impartial advice on employment matters like bullying in the workplace.

Bluebottle

[CornishPasty]

Re: String of resignations

Hi Cornish,

I have no doubt that if you were to check this manager's hairline, you would find "666" there. Does she wear clothes by Prada, by any chance? Joking aside, this woman is a bully and your employers are in serious breach of the law allowing her to continue to behave in the way she has up to now unchecked. Your employers have a duty in law to ensure a safe working environment, safe working practices and must not expose you to unnecessary stress (Section 2, Health and Safety at Work Act 1974). This woman's behaviour amounts to harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. In the case of Mjrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005, it was ruled, by the Court of Appeal, that an employer is vicariously liable for the actions of an employee towards other employees that amount to harassment. It is for the employer and the bullying employee to prove their conduct does not amount to harassment. There are civil and criminal sanctions under the Act.

As I am sure you are aware, any claim for unfair or constructive dismissal against an employer must be brought within three months of the alleged incident, otherwise it is time-barred.

Despite what you think, there is something you can do about this manager's behaviour. The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) can impose Improvement Notices for a MINIMUM of 12 months on employers where there is evidence that an employer is not addressing issues relating to stress, including that caused by bullying. It may also be worth speaking to Jobcentre Plus about your former employer's failure to address this manager's behaviour and the number of staff who left because of it. Although they have no enforcement powers, as such, they can refuse to accept orders for their employment recruitment services from employers where there appears to be a high turnover of employees, especially if it is over a short period of time and there are no other reasons, like, redundancy. You might also like to consider speaking to ACAS who can give you free and impartial advice on employment matters like bullying in the workplace.

Bluebottle

I want to kiss you square on the mouth. This is SUPERB information!

I am going to get in touch with all of the other people who used to work there and hopefully I'll be able to put together a file of complaints against the woman and I can take these with me. I left the employer in late November BUT the P45 they provided me said I left 31st December. So I've got a bit of time. Most of the other people there left a while before that.

Thanks so much!

[bluebottle]

Re: String of resignations

I want to kiss you square on the mouth. This is SUPERB information!

I am going to get in touch with all of the other people who used to work there and hopefully I'll be able to put together a file of complaints against the woman and I can take these with me. I left the employer in late November BUT the P45 they provided me said I left 31st December. So I've got a bit of time. Most of the other people there left a while before that.

Thanks so much!

Hi again Cornish,

Glad to be able to help. One thing you need to be aware of and I am sure ACAS will say this to you, but if you decide to pursue your employer through an ET, bear in mind that if you go for Constructive Dismissal, the onus of proof that you were constructively dismissed lies on you, but if you go for Unfair Dismissal, the onus of proof lies on the employer to prove they did not unfairly dismiss you. Speak to ACAS and your legal advisor and discuss this.

Bluebottle

[CornishPasty]

Re: String of resignations

Hi guys,

Forgot to ask - what should be my first port of call after getting together a file of complaints against the devil woman?

Do I go to the HSE? Maybe speak to ACAS first?

Thanks
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Hi again Cornish,

Glad to be able to help. One thing you need to be aware of and I am sure ACAS will say this to you, but if you decide to pursue your employer through an ET, bear in mind that if you go for Constructive Dismissal, the onus of proof that you were constructively dismissed lies on you, but if you go for Unfair Dismissal, the onus of proof lies on the employer to prove they did not unfairly dismiss you. Speak to ACAS and your legal advisor and discuss this.

Bluebottle

Hiyas BB! I was there for less than a year, so this isn't relevant, unfortunately, is it?

[bluebottle]

Re: String of resignations

Hi guys,

Forgot to ask - what should be my first port of call after getting together a file of complaints against the devil woman?

Do I go to the HSE? Maybe speak to ACAS first?

Thanks
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Hiyas BB! I was there for less than a year, so this isn't relevant, unfortunately, is it?

Hi Cornish,

Unfortunately, you cannot pursue a claim for either constructive or unfair dismissal due to the fact you were with the employer for less than 12 months. However, I would strongly advise you to speak to ACAS about the fact that you and others have left because of Cruella DeVille's behaviour. There may be some measure that applies in your case, but ACAS will be able to tell you if there is.

As regards the HSE, if you or anyone who has left suffered stress as a result of Cruella's behaviour or was off sick because of it, then it would be worth speaking to them. The destructive type of stress associated with bullying not only causes ill-health, but can cause more serious illness, like heart attacks and strokes, which can be fatal. Under Section 7, Health & Safety at Work Act 1974, employees have a statutory duty to look after they own health and safety and that of others who may be affected by their actions and omissions.

Definitely speak to ACAS. Speak to the others who left, find out if they suffered ill-health as a result of the bullying from Cruella and speak to the HSE. If you need to speak to one of their inspectorates or your local council's environmental health department, they will tell you.

All the best and I hope you find a job that suits you better soon.

BLuebottle

[CleverClogs]

Re: String of resignations

Forgot to ask - what should be my first port of call after getting together a file of complaints against the devil woman?

An exorcist?

[bluebottle]

Re: String of resignations

An exorcist?

Nah. Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[CornishPasty]

Re: String of resignations

New, ugly twist to this tale.

A former colleague of mine who worked under me when I was a senior manager at this company but left about a month before I did (because of this woman) was recently offered a job at an alternative company provided his references came back OK.

He put me down as a reference but, unfortunately, as I was no longer at the company the prospective employer's request was intercepted by Cruella.

Cruella and the guy in question had a particularly bad relationship. I mean REALLY bad. It's because he stood up to her previously.

Now, Cruella can count on one hand the number of times she'd actually seen the guy at work because of their opposite work patterns but I would see him almost every day.

He was a good, loyal, dedicated worker. He did a great job.

Cruella's reference was SCATHING and, as a result, this guy didn't get the job.

I am going to speak to the employer tomorrow and explain the situation in the hope that they'll reconsider.

[CleverClogs]

Re: String of resignations

He was a good, loyal, dedicated worker. He did a great job.

Cruella's reference was SCATHING and, as a result, this guy didn't get the job.

I am going to speak to the employer tomorrow and explain the situation in the hope that they'll reconsider.

Can he prove that was the reason he did not get the job?

If he can - or if he can get a copy of the crap she sends to prospective employers - he can and should seek an account of damages from Cruella and her current employers. jointly and severally.

I would be astounded if her employers would welcome the costs of defending such a claim.

[bluebottle]

Re: String of resignations

There are two issues here - Defamation and Harassment.

Employers are repeatedly warned by legal professionals and ACAS not to put ANYTHING in a reference they cannot support with evidence. Some HR consultants parrot that employers are entitled to an opinion, but, apparently, this doesn't make a lot of difference. If the employer cannot prove what they say is correct or true, they're in the excrement.

With Defamation, it has to be proven a loss has been incurred. However, Harassment, under Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997, is much easier to prove as it places the burden of proof on the person whose conduct is in question. In accordance with the Court of Appeal ruling in Mjrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's 2005, the OP's employers are vicariously liable for Cruella's actions.

The guy can sue them, under Section 3, Protection from Harassment Act 1997, and the liability is unlimited. He will, however, need a legal professional to pursue the matter as it will need to go before a County Court or the High Court. It is not something that can be pursued through Small Claims procedures.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

New, ugly twist to this tale.

A former colleague of mine who worked under me when I was a senior manager at this company but left about a month before I did (because of this woman) was recently offered a job at an alternative company provided his references came back OK.

He put me down as a reference but, unfortunately, as I was no longer at the company the prospective employer's request was intercepted by Cruella.

Cruella and the guy in question had a particularly bad relationship. I mean REALLY bad. It's because he stood up to her previously.

Now, Cruella can count on one hand the number of times she'd actually seen the guy at work because of their opposite work patterns but I would see him almost every day.

He was a good, loyal, dedicated worker. He did a great job.

Cruella's reference was SCATHING and, as a result, this guy didn't get the job.

I am going to speak to the employer tomorrow and explain the situation in the hope that they'll reconsider.

Cornish, are you saying that Cruella intercepted and opened mail addressed to you?

[CornishPasty]

Re: String of resignations

Thanks for the information above. I'll pass this on to him.

I spoke to the prospective employer today - turns out that while the reference wasn't brilliant by any means, this wasn't the only reason he didn't get the job.

I'd still like to try and get a copy of the reference, though. I wonder if the employer would give me one?

Cornish, are you saying that Cruella intercepted and opened mail addressed to you?

Yes. It used to happen all the time even when I was working there. I could excuse it a little now I'm no longer with the company, though (should I?).

[bluebottle]

Re: String of resignations

Thanks for the information above. I'll pass this on to him.

I spoke to the prospective employer today - turns out that while the reference wasn't brilliant by any means, this wasn't the only reason he didn't get the job.

I'd still like to try and get a copy of the reference, though. I wonder if the employer would give me one?
Yes. It used to happen all the time even when I was working there. I could excuse it a little now I'm no longer with the company, though (should I?).

I'll answer your questions in the order you've raised them.

OBTAINING COPY OF REFERENCE

Unfortunately, the Data Protection Act 1998 applies and you won't be able to obtain a copy of the reference.

INTERCEPTION AND OPENING OF MAIL NOT ADDRESSED TO CRUELLA OR FORMER EMPLOYER

No, you shouldn't excuse it! Intercepting and opening mail not addressed to you is a criminal offence under Section 84(3), Postal Services Act 2000 and carries a maximum penalty of a £20K fine, or six months imprisonment or both. In addition to that, it is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 and Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997. Get onto the CEO of your former employers, point out to him/her what Cruella is up to, what the law says about, that he/she and the company are vicariously liable for what she's doing and to put a stop to it - pronto!

Also, make it clear that any mail that arrives for you is to be redirected to your home address unopened.

Bluebottle

[jane1108]

Re: String of resignations

Not entirely right about opening mail being an offence it comes with proviso of causing or intending to meddle/cause loss etc. But right in the context above. An employer cannot give a bad reference for anyone without categoric evidence to back up their claims as already stated. They can however decide not to give a reference! Sounds like the employer really needs to take thisawful woman in hand before she costs them a lot if money!

[bluebottle]

Re: String of resignations

Not entirely right about opening mail being an offence it comes with proviso of causing or intending to meddle/cause loss etc. But right in the context above. An employer cannot give a bad reference for anyone without categoric evidence to back up their claims as already stated. They can however decide not to give a reference! Sounds like the employer really needs to take thisawful woman in hand before she costs them a lot if money!

If you look at Section 84, Postal Services Act 2000, you don't have to prove intention to meddle/cause loss, etc.. The offence is intercepting and opening mail not addressed to you. There are offences of stealing mail, but that is a separate offence altogether.

You are right about employers giving bad references without evidence to support what they say. The legislation that is now used to deal with this sort of thing is Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997. It puts the onus of proof on the person making the reference. You are also right about an employer declining to give a reference.

Employers are vicariously liable for conduct amounting to harassment by employees against other employees. There is case law on this, namely, Mjrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005, which was a ruling by the Court of Appeal.