overtime laws

[johnjoiner]

Hello, I work in a school as a joiner, 39.5 hours a week. Every four weeks for the past ten years I also do a duty, this means unlocking and locking up the site and being on stand by at the weekends(40 hours overtime) for the overtime, they pay me time and a half.
Now, I have been told that I can no longer do this, because it's costing too much, my question is.. after ten years can they just stop my regular overtime?
I stand to loose thousands of pounds because of this.

kind regards Johnjoiner:tinysmile_cry_t::tinysmile_cry_t:

[leclerc]

Re: overtime laws

Hello, I work in a school as a joiner, 39.5 hours a week. Every four weeks for the past ten years I also do a duty, this means unlocking and locking up the site and being on stand by at the weekends(40 hours overtime) for the overtime, they pay me time and a half.
Now, I have been told that I can no longer do this, because it's costing too much, my question is.. after ten years can they just stop my regular overtime?
I stand to loose thousands of pounds because of this.

kind regards Johnjoiner:tinysmile_cry_t::tinysmile_cry_t:

Do other people do the same hours and has their overtime stopped as well?

[miliitant]

Re: overtime laws

how is this overtime written into your contract of employment

me thinks they are onto a sticky wicket as custom and practice comes into play as well as unlawful deduction of wages being 10 years service

what consultation have they done with you

any renumeration

[johnjoiner]

Re: overtime laws

Hello, yes sir, four of us split the duties, the school plans to hire two new "caretakers" working split shifts throughout the week and weekends.
The other three are going to be evicted from the school houses, I'm the lucky one, they loose theirs homes as well. We have done nothing wrong, but the school tells us it is'nt working any more, we have a contract for the duties as well as our day jobs. It just seems so cold blooded.

Kind regards Johnjoiner :tinysmile_cry_t::tinysmile_cry_t:

[miliitant]

Re: overtime laws

how much notice have they given for the changes

a contract is a two way agreement

[labman]

Re: overtime laws

You may find this link useful:

Overtime : Directgov - Employment

I would imagine if this has been a regular thing for 10 years that there must be something in your contract about it. I have done a lot of work with schools and school budgets, and have never come across a case where being on standby at the weekend counts as the entire weekend being overtime. Usually you would have a specific number of hours overtime for opening and closing the school, and then a 'token' payment on the off chance you were called out for a break in, alarm going off accidentally etc...

The link gives you some areas to look into, particularly with regard to your contract, and hopefully you will find a way forward from there.

[johnjoiner]

Re: overtime laws

We were called into the office last week and told of a "proposal" We were shocked, they have since told all staff of their proposal, many people think they can't just do that, but we think they are going to.
Tomorrow, we are all going into the office, one at a time, we think they are going to tell us that it's a go. We do not know why they want the houses as well, it's in the other guy's contract, that the house comes with both the job, and the duty. I live off site, and that is why I get paid time and a half, the others just get single pay for their duties.

Kid regards Johnjoiner

[miliitant]

Re: overtime laws

being a school, have you spoken to a union IR rep

even if you are not in a union, have a word in his/her ear

this will be classed as a form of redundency and a substantial change to your contract

keep your thread updated on tomorrows events

i myself am about to leave for our monthly branch meeting so i will check in later

[labman]

Re: overtime laws

I'm not sure whether it's the same with Caretaker hours, but certainly with teaching hours, if there was going to be a change, existing staff had to have first refusal for any positions / hours going. It was not possible to simply get rid of three and replace with two new ones from outside. It was quite possible to redistribute existing hours and change three posts into two though.

If it is redundancy, as it sounds, the school should have sought advice, and you should have had access to advice from the LEA's Human Resources Department. Have you tried giving them a ring? You're perfectly entitled to do so to find out where you stand.

I do know of one school who had a really major issue with a caretaker repeatedly being off sick. It was amazing what rights this person had, and how long it took for the school to retire her on medical grounds.

[johnjoiner]

Re: overtime laws

We get two hours in the morning, and two hours at night 6-8, 5-7, weekends 7-5pm. there are many lettings on at the school, well into the evenings and all weekend, there has to be someone on site all the time, not just for alarms, the school is growing, we have a swimming pool, astro pitch and other things. We have never moaned about the hours, we get paid well. We will have to see what is said tomorrow.
Thank you for your time.

Kind regards Johnjoiner

[charitynjw]

Re: overtime laws

There was a recent case involving refusal of overtime & the Working Time Regulations 1998.

http://www.spw-law.co.uk/blog-posts/...easonable.html

[johnjoiner]

Re: overtime laws

thank you all for your imput, I will ask a lot of questions, and find out what they have to say, if I think they are trying to con, intimidate, or bully me, I will seek outside help.
As far as my day job goes, I am very good at it, just thought I'd say that.
I will let you know how it goes, thank you.

Ask not what you can do for the school....

Kind Regards Johnjoiner

[johnjoiner]

Re: overtime laws

I've had the meeting, and the bursar still insists that it is just a proposal.
We all know that they are just going through the motions, they will do it.
The bursar has had legal advice and thinks it is all above board.
They will offer me a lump sum and that's all. Another meeting is planned for next month.
Once again thanks for your imput.

Kind regards Johnjoiner.

[miliitant]

Re: overtime laws

I've had the meeting, and the bursar still insists that it is just a proposal.
We all know that they are just going through the motions, they will do it.
The bursar has had legal advice and thinks it is all above board.
They will offer me a lump sum and that's all. Another meeting is planned for next month.
Once again thanks for your imput.

Kind regards Johnjoiner.

as stated its just a proposal

they are seeing what you know and how you feel

so the bursar has had legal advice, and thinks its all above board

from who ????

until they officially announce a consultation period ,believe nothing

[bluebottle]

Re: overtime laws

how is this overtime written into your contract of employment

me thinks they are onto a sticky wicket as custom and practice comes into play as well as unlawful deduction of wages being 10 years service

what consultation have they done with you

any renumeration

If the overtime is written into the contract of employment, the employer needs to re-negotiate the contract. Custom and Practice is a bit of a grey area. I recall a case, some years ago, where an employer tried "custom and practice" as a defence and had it ruled out of order by the judge. If the bursar thinks taking legal advice means everything is legal and above board, they clearly need to face up to harsh reality. Any advice given by a legal professional is that legal professional's interpretation of the law and another legal professional may well give a completely different opinion. The bursar should check with ACAS, if they have not already done so, and so should OP. If this were to go before an ET, the bursar may well find their actions are not legal and above board and that the consequences could be dire.