Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

[charitynjw]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

Btw, do you have household insurance?

There is often built-in legal cover re employment problems.

It's worth checking!

[labman]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

Kitty,

Forgive me if I'm being stupid and missing something here - it's quite possible!

In post 52 you outline the procedure, and say which stage you're on. After that there is another final written warning and then dismissal. Does this not mean that if any hearing about your error is upheld you should get a final written warning rather than dismissal?


I also think there is something else you need to find out. You are on a written warning at present. I've given these out to staff members before several times, and certainly in the environment in which I worked, they wre time limited and then the employee went back to the previous stage as though nothing had ever happened. Is this the case with your company, and if it is, how near are you to returning to 'normality?'

In my environment it was a sliding scale depending on severity of the 'offence,' but was usually, in the case of written warnings, between one and two years. If an 'offence' warranted something that would mean a written warning that lasted longer than this on an employee's personal file, they were dealt with from the word go at a different stage of the disciplinary procedure altogether.

[Kittycat]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

Labman

Yeah the procedures as far as I am aware are
1) Verbal
2) First Written
3) Final Written
4) Dismissal

I am only at stage 2 which is a first written but for some reason they are saying the disciplinary is under stage 4 (dismissal)
My warning letter did state that if I break company rules again, a Final Written would be invoked. But I spoke to a manager today who said my case may fall under that. But without the disciplinary procedures to refer too, I am in the dark.
I feel dismissing me would be wrong, as they are going back on what they stated.

Also there is a year on the first written and I am 6 months into it.

[charitynjw]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

From page 26 of the above link

"As with misconduct dismissals, the ACAS Code envisages that in most cases, employees will be given at least
two warnings before they are dismissed for poor performance.
It is not always necessary to give two formal warnings. One warning may do, where the employee is already

fully aware of management concerns"

It's worth reading the whole thing, as it's written by Tamara Lewis
http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/judic...310511-021.htm

[Kittycat]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

Thanks for the links.
I have that page bookmarked and has been a great help to me.

So they should really give me another warning and a chance to improve as the time frame they gave me (a year) isn't over with.
BUT
If this deem this as gross negligance (not outlined in letters) then they could dismiss me anyway.

So maybe I need to see if they are deeming this as gross negligance or just poor performance?

[charitynjw]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

To be honest, Kittycat, if it were me I would be looking to secure all the evidence I could, especially the CCTV stuff, as they could wipe this fairly soon. (Most firms keep it for about a month).
Not because I think you will be dismissed, but, if worst comes to worst, you will need concrete evidence if you feel they have been unfair (in the legal sense, ie it is not a 'reasonable response').
You could request all the information they hold on you (including the previous disciplinary), which includes not just the CCTV stuff, but also all internal memos, emails, letters, in fact anything which identifies you, via an SAR.
To pre-empt any objection, I would also include reference to s35 of the Data Protection Act .
& with a mention that this should be passed to the Data Controller.

"Section 35 also applies before a case has started, provided it is necessary in connection with the prospective proceedings or for getting legal advice."

See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/35

They have a maximum of 40 days to send it, but in my opinion they would look pretty foolish if, once you've asked for it, they subsequently say it no longer exists.
Also, as you have a right to see all the evidence, I would imagine you would have reasonable justification in postponing any hearing date until they cough up!
This said, do not refuse outright to attend, just make your objection clear, & in writing.
As I say, however, just my opinion!

To try & avoid pi$$ing them off, though, I would include it in the letter which you propose (above).
(Btw, it will cost you a tenner!)

[charitynjw]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

& it might be worth mentioning - sometimes it's not just a question of what is supplied, but what any normal person would expect to be included but, for some strange 'reason', may be missing!

Or, to put in another way

"You consider that to be important?" he [Inspector Gregory] asked.
"Exceedingly so."
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes
.
The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes (1893)
Inspector Gregory and Sherlock Holmes in "Silver Blaze" (Doubleday p. 346-7)

[Kittycat]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

Still a lot of confusing info to read and go through!!

Well its been a week and NO paperwork that I requested. No Terms and Conditions, Contract and Disciplinary procedures. So just sent a letter to ask for these, got all in writing as it easier if they claim they didn't recieve it. My manager isn't at work today but will call her tomorrow to tell her to email HR again! saying I want these ASAP!!

Applied for like 30 jobs yesterday! So my head is seeing application forms!!!
I am resigned to the fact by this time next week I will be jobless, but its hurting right now.
Still gonna fight though.

[Sapphire]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

(((((((Hugs))))))) for you Kitty, please don't flood your head with info, you'll only cause yourself a headache.

[leclerc]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

.......but 30 applications? That's just not good enough, I want another 20 before the end of the day

When I said about applying I thought you might get 5 or 6 a day done so you're doing pretty well, so far.

[Kittycat]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

20 by end of day.........done.

I am determined not to be off work for long as I have a house to run.
I am lucky as I have 16 years retail experience in Supervisor related roles as well as Care experience so plenty to apply for. Still waiting on news if I was successful in a group interview for Waitrose. Not gonna sit back.
I am enjoying the time off, esp close to xmas. But I am starting to get lonely as hubby works 8-6pm. The more lonely I get, the more I think of the situation I am in.

Still waiting on paperwork and been advised by someone to hang on till thurs and if none, then to request a postponement of hearing as i need the paperwork to work with.

Opinion. If they are considering my issue to be gross misconduct, should the disciplinary letter say that? Just getting paperwork in order and want to be sure.

[EXC]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

1) Verbal
2) First Written (which I am on)
3) Final Written
4) Dismissal/Summary dismissal

So they are obviously looking to dismiss me and I bet they have already made their mind up.

These aren't the levels of disciplinary procedures themselves - they are the sanctions for them.

They really should supply them as the reference they made to them can have no effect if you don't know what they are.

[Kittycat]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

Still not recieved the documents I asked for last monday.

I have got copies of the investigation notes and all that. But still no Contract, Terms and Cond and Disciplinary procedures. I sent them a letter Monday for these again, so I have written proof of request. Postie not due for a while yet. So still a chance today. But if nothing by tomorrow, I have been advised to ask for a change of hearing date as I need these documents. I need to know the procedures and what my offence is classed as.
I also asked this in the same letter, outlining I needed to know if it is being considered a mistake, or a delibrate attempt to break rules. How can I get all this other paperwork in quick time but not the ones I really need???

But someone did raise the question. As I do not have my contract, nor do I remember signing one (could have but a lot has happened since then!!!) is it reasonable to expect someone with no contract in their possession, to know the precise rules and procedures? I have no contract and never given a copy of procedures. How can someone know if they are breaking a rule, if no rules were given too them?

I just know I have none, have hunted all over my house and nothing.


On the bonus side, possible job. Got an interview on 4th Jan for a Care job. A job I am 90% in line for as I have previous experience, know all I need. Just need to impress them with my smiles and laughter at the interview. Had a phone interview and the lady seemed happy and nice. So if I do lose my job saturday, it might not hurt so bad if I know I am possibly going into another one real soon.

[Kittycat]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

***************GOOD NEWS*****************

Back to work I go!!
Final Written Warning given with steps to ensure nothing like this happens again.

So I am now in a very festive mood.

Want to thank ALL who helped me, calmed me down, reassured me, gave me info. I really could not have done this without you guys.

See you around the forum

[Mrs James]

Re: Missing money at work, replaced myself so I can keep job

Excellent news and well done you.

Now just have a great Christmas x