Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

[Kittycat]

Hi

I am here for advice so I hope you can help and was wondering if a store can fire you on suspicion of theft with no hard evidence. A disciplinary is awaited to be done on me.
I work for a retail store as a shift manager.
One day £40 went missing from the safe float. I was the key holder and had responsibility for it BUT I was not the only person to touch the money. I recorded the safe in paper work as being £700 at 6am

After banking some money it is put in a locked safe where access is not allowed until the following day. I banked this money and also changed some change from the safe float. I also ordered some change from an internal post office. (gave her approx £300 from safe float)

Even though I was the only one in the safe float. Money was handled by the post office lady as she dealt with my change order and the following morning the locked away banking was then counted by another lady.

Now I have no idea where this £40 went. But as I was not the only one to physically touch money from that safe.
I could have
1) Accidentally given the post office extra money and they didn't declare it and then pocketed it themselves
2) I could have accidentally left that £40 in the banking (which was locked away until another lady opened it the following morning) If she discovered the extra £40 in banking, she could have taken it and claimed she "hadn't found it"
3) Even though my till was checked, another lady had left the store earlier in the day. The extra £40 could have been in her till and she didn't declare it and could have pocketed it herself.

When I discovered the money missing bag searches were conducted and recorded on the day of myself and the lady who was counting with me.

I have 13 months service, no previous issues. We have CCTV in the office but no evidence has been presented yet and will not as I did no take it.
Any idea on if they have proof enough to sack me? I think not as I was not the only person to physically touch that money.

On previous times the safe float has been missing £20-£30 and has been found the next morning in the locked away banking.

Sorry to ramble on, I have worked in retail for 16 years and had no accusation against me before so naturally I am worried.

[leclerc]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

Hi

I am here for advice so I hope you can help and was wondering if a store can fire you on suspicion of theft with no hard evidence. A disciplinary is awaited to be done on me.
Before the disciplinary, they have to provide you with the evidence that you stole from them.

I work for a retail store as a shift manager.
One day £40 went missing from the safe float. I was the key holder and had responsibility for it BUT I was not the only person to touch the money. I recorded the safe in paper work as being £700 at 6am
Are you the sole key holder with access to the float?
After banking some money it is put in a locked safe where access is not allowed until the following day. I banked this money and also changed some change from the safe float. I also ordered some change from an internal post office. (gave her approx £300 from safe float)

Even though I was the only one in the safe float. Money was handled by the post office lady as she dealt with my change order and the following morning the locked away banking was then counted by another lady.

Now I have no idea where this £40 went. But as I was not the only one to physically touch money from that safe.
I could have
1) Accidentally given the post office extra money and they didn't declare it and then pocketed it themselvesThe til would have been balanced each day and the discrepancy noted.

2) I could have accidentally left that £40 in the banking (which was locked away until another lady opened it the following morning) If she discovered the extra £40 in banking, she could have taken it and claimed she "hadn't found it"Again, for what reason would she do that?

3) Even though my till was checked, another lady had left the store earlier in the day. The extra £40 could have been in her till and she didn't declare it and could have pocketed it herself.Why are you looking to cast aspersions on someone else?


When I discovered the money missing bag searches were conducted and recorded on the day of myself and the lady who was counting with me.


I have 13 months service, no previous issues. We have CCTV in the office but no evidence has been presented yet and will not as I did no take it.
Any idea on if they have proof enough to sack me? I think not as I was not the only person to physically touch that money.

On previous times the safe float has been missing £20-£30 and has been found the next morning in the locked away banking.

Sorry to ramble on, I have worked in retail for 16 years and had no accusation against me before so naturally I am worried.

They have to have proof of theft to sack you. Is this standard procedure to suspend someone if the float is short?
Have you had any other discrepancies on your shift that you are responsible for?
Is suspension something that is normally done when this happens?
Currently suspicion of an offence is not evidence that theft has occurred.

[Celestine]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

I work for a retail store as a shift manager.
One day £40 went missing from the safe float. I was the key holder and had responsibility for it BUT I was not the only person to touch the money. I recorded the safe in paper work as being £700 at 6am
Are you the sole key holder with access to the float?
After banking some money it is put in a locked safe where access is not allowed until the following day. I banked this money and also changed some change from the safe float. I also ordered some change from an internal post office. (gave her approx £300 from safe float)

Even though I was the only one in the safe float. Money was handled by the post office lady as she dealt with my change order and the following morning the locked away banking was then counted by another lady.

Now I have no idea where this £40 went. But as I was not the only one to physically touch money from that safe.
I could have
1) Accidentally given the post office extra money and they didn't declare it and then pocketed it themselvesThe til would have been balanced each day and the discrepancy noted.

2) I could have accidentally left that £40 in the banking (which was locked away until another lady opened it the following morning) If she discovered the extra £40 in banking, she could have taken it and claimed she "hadn't found it"Again, for what reason would she do that?

3) Even though my till was checked, another lady had left the store earlier in the day. The extra £40 could have been in her till and she didn't declare it and could have pocketed it herself.Why are you looking to cast aspersions on someone else?

Personally, if I was being accused of theft and I was innocent........and the money really has gone (i.e. stolen and not found banked incorrectly somewhere....then I would definitely be trying to work out who had stolen it. Not casting aspersions, defending my innocence.

[WendyB]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

As many of you know, I work for a well known bookmakers. I have to say that one more than one occasion when money has gone missing from a shop, i.e in a "robbery" which was obviously an inside job of some description due to locks not being forced etc, the whole of the shop staff have been suspended pending investigations. Then, if the company has been unable to prove which one took the money or was involved, they have sacked all of the shop staff. Not so much innocent until proven guilty, but guilty until proven innocent.

They drag in the Security Team, check the CCTV etc. When th staff are interviewed for statements etc, it's "under caution", everything is recorded, notes taken etc.

Having said that, daily cash differences would not always be a sacking offence, per se, but every cash difference on each till, per person, is recorded, even if it's only 1p. Get 3 of over £10, whether up or down, in 3 months then this would attract a Stage 2 for 6 months. A further cash diff of £10 within the next 6 months would gain a Stage 3, then dismissal if there's another one.

The manager of the shop is also held ultimately responsible for any cash differences, for example, slow counters, conmen, banking etc.

[Caspar]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

Two things. Firstly Wendy's reply scares me - it makes me wonder how they would stand if someone contested being sacked as unfair dismissal.

Secondly, I wonder what you mean by internal Post Office? Is it a trade term, or do you actually bank money at a PO? Excuse my ignorance. It's just that we had an issue over £20 at our PO last week - we'd paid in £120 and they were busy. They asked how much there was and my better half said £100 (innocent mistake). The Postmaster, knowing her, just put the money in the till. She went straight back up and was told to come back the next morning after they'd balanced their books. Fair enough!

Next morning, no balanced books, come back next morning. This went on for four working days and eventually the PO handed back my £20, but had we been less persistent I wonder what would have happened. what I'm saying is that although Leclerc quite rightly says the books would be balanced at the end of the day, in reality not all do.

[WendyB]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

Scares me too Caspar, but that's the way it is. I have to say, if I were sacked for the reasons above, i.e if money had gone missing after a robbery and all the staff were under suspicion then sacked, if I knew it wasn't me then I would definitely take them to a tribunal. Obviously in these cases the staff can appeal against the dismissal and some of them no doubt get reinstated without going to Tribunal. I have no statistics for this though. I know of at least 3 shops that this has happened in and all the staff have been sacked. Presumably the ones who don't appeal the dismissal are the guilty ones....

[charitynjw]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

The Employer does not need absolute proof, they can justify their actions via a 'reasonable response'.
This doesn't necessarily mean reasonable in the ordinary sense, but to explain any disciplinary action, they need to provide an explanation which is understood by a Tribunal as an action to 'safeguard' their commercial interests, or their reputation, or a thousand other things!
As it is not a 'criminal' scenario (I may have misunderstood, but it doesn't seem like the police have been involved), they do not need proof 'beyond reasonable doubt', just 'balance of probabilities'.
My advice would be:-
Ensure that all possible evidence is secured. CCTV footage is often available at tills as well.
Contact your union rep (if you have one).
Contact ACAS.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461
Obtain a copy of your company's Disciplinary & Grievance guide, & compare it with the ACAS guide (it should be at least as good as the ACAS one, which is available online).
If you feel it is necessary, raise an official grievance.
& remember the rule - everything in writing (email is brilliant - instant, & doesn't cost!)
If you 'take charge' of your end of things, your employer may well see you mean business & decide that, for £40, it's not worth the aggro (it will cost them a great deal more than that if it goes to Employment Tribunal!)

[Kittycat]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

Thought I had updated this.

Well I had the disciplinary back in June and was given a first written warning, The manager interviewing me could see I was truly sorry for the fact I had lost it and I told her I had plans to stop it happening again. She had to follow procedure and give me a first written warning as money was lost, money I was in charge of.
I accepted the decision as it was correct

[labman]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

Although not involved in the original thread, I am pleased it's worked out possible, you've been realistic, put it down to experience and got on with life.

Well done you!

[Celestine]

Re: Worried. Disciplinary for missing money

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