Employment Tribunal

[zeitgit]

A former probation officer, I took my employer to Employment Tribunal for harassment and unfair dismissal under the Public Disclosure Act. The third and full hearing was listed for three days. I was to be represented by a worker from a local advice centre. That representative pulled out the night before. He said he was "not obligated" to give me a reason. I was mentally unwell, bullied by the chair and had to then try and represent myself against Home Office Solicitors.
At lunchtime of the second day, the respondent's solicitor did not follow me out but I observed him approaching the bench. The case was terminated that afternoon, which left me unable to call witnesses. I was told that my claims were unsuccessful and was ordered to pay £2000 towards costs, this without my means being considered.
My query is this:
The "Decision Of The Employment Tribunal" paperwork states that the hearing took place over a period of three days, the third being "in chambers."
What can I deduce from this and is there any action I can take to uncover the truth?

[Glenn UK]

Re: Employment Tribunal

At the risk of asking a stupid question, having seen the other side approach the bench and then for the hearing to be terminated did you not ask why at the time?

I see you say you were mentally unwell, so I'm sorry if this is a daft thing to ask but i am curious. When i have been to court (and represented myself) I have always had things explained or asked for them to be explained.

i would be interested to know what transpired?

Glenn

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

Hullo Glenn. I'd blown the whistle about cover-ups. I tried for five months to get someone to hear me. Instead I kept being harassed and victimised into a severe breakdown. For the first day of the tribunal, the bench were really patient and helpful. The mood of the hearing changed abruptly after the Home Office solicitor & bench chinwag. I was simply demolished. Punch-drunk. I was effectively being stitched up and gagged at every turn. Another blind corner, with even more damage done to my, by now, fragile mental health. Perhaps if I'd been able to raise it at the time, it would have been recorded somewhere. Yeah right. Anyhow they unaware I'd seen them. I wasn't going to give the game away that I knew they were in cahoots. But now I fancy having a second shot at getting justice. Enough already.
Thanks for replying by the way.

[righty]

zeitgit I really don't think this is something you can carry off yourself - You need professional help. Speak to a solicitor specialising in employment matters who will provide a contingency agreement which means it should cost you nothing at the outset although you may surrender some of any final compensation

Incidentally aren't you a union member & if so what's the story there?

Also when you say "local advice centre" do you mean the local CAB? Also despite what they might claim the rep (no matter where from) does have to give you a reason & it needs to be a very good one,such as you being thought untruthful, to abandon you at that late stage - However even if he suspected that he should have given you an opportunity to explain before abandoning you - Once you answer the above queries you can be answered in more detail

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

Hello Righty, thank you for the post. Am drafting a reply, but need to take a deep breath before I can launch an assault on the box-files. Have to check some details.

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

There is simply no way I would attempt to deal with the legal system on my own. We’re talking Home Office here, which holds responsibility for, among others, the Employment Tribunals and Probation Service. Probation Service Tribunal successes don’t figure on the statistics. I'd been a member of Napo for over 20 years. What a waste of my money. From the outset of my concerns I had been begging them for urgent legal advice. I experienced their contribution to be a confusion of dilatory, amateurish and downright damaging. One has to wonder whose interests they actually serve.

I was subjected to mounting victimisation by management who pressured me to “drop it”. After five months I could take no more and was forced into sickness leave. Many months later I was at last put in touch with an union solicitor. The quality of the service I experienced led me to get out and seek alternative representation.

At some point I hope to pursue individual action against Napo, against the solicitor and barrister to whom I’d shelled out several thousands of pounds and also against the advice centre. I certainly want answers. I finally ended up at a local advice centre (not CAB) requesting a referral for Bar Pro Bono. The adviser, experienced in employment tribunals, quickly expressed interest in handling my case. I had no reason not to collapse with relief. Once he began to communicate with my employer’s solicitors, his enthusiasm evaporated. Things continued downhill from there on really. Abandoning me the night before the tribunal then saying - exact words - “not obligated” when asked for an explanation. Sounded scripted to me. As an aside, I managed to claw an appointment with the union’s senior solicitor on a separate but related matter. I was told I had a case for personal injury but they were declining to pursue it. Simply it seems, because I was up against the Home Office.

For the moment, I’m focusing on the Employment Tribunal angle. This was listed as a three-day hearing. The witnesses I wished to question were due on the third day. The tribunal was called to a halt abruptly on the second afternoon. I was declared unsuccessful on all counts and liable for costs.

Q. What circumstances would necessitate continuance of any hearing when the decision has already been pronounced?
Q. What, in law, qualifies a hearing/part of a hearing to be held in
chambers?
Q. When can the appellant not only be excluded from the hearing but also kept in ignorance of its existence?

Oh, for the record. Letters had been flying back and forward between the union and Health & Safety Executive. The senior chap who was involved then left. HSE subsequently denied having ever heard of me.

[Glenn UK]

Re: Employment Tribunal

Its difficult for me to comment, I'm a lay person like you, but i feel that without knowing chapter and verse what your claim is its difficult to tell exactly what has gone on.

As an employer, i do wonder what your employers side is? I have no doubt that you feel you behaved reasonably but i am wondering if your claim was deemed frivolous by the courts?

I have never been or been taken to a tribunal so i am not sure what the possibilities are. I think, although no doubt Righty who has a lot more experience of these matters than i will no doubt correct me if i am wide of the mark here, that if you ended up in court and the judge felt that your claim was baseless and frivolous they could simply end the trial and dismiss the case in all probability award costs against you.

So like i say, it would be good to have an idea of what you think your case was about. Sorry if this sounds like I'm judging you, but the truth is from my perspective unless we have some idea of what the case is about its very difficult to comment.

it would be easy to say yeah all sounds really terrible but my feelings about employment tribunals generally is that its difficult for an employer and generally the law is weighted to favour the employee. This is not to say that the employee always wins or gets treated fairly, any more than the same could be said for the employer.

Anyway, be good to understand what you think your case is and what the employers defence was to help give better feedback and support.

Glenn

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

There were systematic and profound changes ordered to our working practice. These represented serious breaches of Health & Safety. The Probation Service was now being run as a business with public protection no longer being priority. I went through all the correct channels, followed all correct procedures only to be met with obstruction then collusion and the victimisation. I had two tribunals prior to the full hearing. They were satisfied that I was making neither a frivolous nor malicious claim.

A number of issues arose from the way my tribunal was conducted. There were irregularities perpetrated by both the respondent’s solicitor also the bench.

At this point in time, it’s the legal aspect of hearings in camera that I need to focus on. I need to unpick this bit.

By the way Glenn, it never occured to me to think you were being judgemental, Didn't cross my mind.

[righty]

Re: Employment Tribunal

amend this accordingly & send to the various lawyers

Date:
YOUR REF:
OUR REF:

Special Delivery

SAR (Subject Access Request) DPA (Data Protection Act) 1998
Their Name & Address

Your Name & Address

Dear Madam or Sir:
RE:
As per the DPA 1998 (Date Protection Act) I require that you supply me with any and all data in your possession which, in anyway appertains to me including true copies of all internal and external correspondence, memo’s, telephone attendance notes, internal and external emails
I enclose the statutory fee of £10 by way of a postal order and remind you that you have 40 days in which to comply
Also please note that for the avoidance of doubt and to expedite matters if you claim exemptions from the Data Protection Act under part IV section 35 I would respectfully remind you of the following:
Data Protection Act part IV section 35 (2) states "personal data is exempt from the non-disclosure provisions" In addition Part II section 7 (legal guidance notes) "There are no exemptions from the right of access where civil legal proceedings are contemplated or ongoing"
We await your responses
Yours faithfully
Amend this accordingly & send to your employers
Date:
YOUR REF:
OUR REF:

Special Delivery

SAR (Subject Access Request) DPA (Data Protection Act) 1998
Their Name & Address

Your Name & Address

Dear Madam or Sir:
RE:
As per the DPA 1998 (Date Protection Act) I require that you supply me with any and all data in your possession which, in anyway appertains to me including true copies of all internal and external correspondence, memo’s, telephone attendance notes, internal and external emails
I enclose the statutory fee of £10 by way of a postal order and remind you that you have 40 days in which to comply
Also please note that for the avoidance of doubt and to expedite matters if you claim exemptions from the Data Protection Act under part IV section 35 I would respectfully remind you of the following:
Data Protection Act part IV section 35 (2) states "personal data is exempt from the non-disclosure provisions" In addition Part II section 7 (legal guidance notes) "There are no exemptions from the right of access where civil legal proceedings are either contemplated or ongoing"
I await your responses
Yours

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

Lest I forget. The preparation of documents for the full hearing fell to of the respondent. I was profoundly unhappy at this but had neither the means nor wherewithal to meet the task myself. The following statement can be found on the "Index to Agreed Bundle" header page.

"Index to the bundle of documents prepared by the respondent but containing all the documents from both parties' disclosure which the respondent believes to be at all relevant to the issues in the claim."

Naturally the documents upon which I was relying had not been considered relevant. These documents had been obtained only after intervention of the Information Commissioner personally. He eventually formed the written conclusion that Probation were deliberately continuing to withholdpapers from me but declined to take further action. I raised the above to the bench. Both matters were treated dismissively. I need time to think about going down that route again. None of the usual systems seem to lead to justice for me.

[righty]

Re: Employment Tribunal

In that case don't bother with a SAR at least not for now. MY advice remains the same you need to go all out to try & find a lawyer who will act for you as it appears that you may have strong grounds for an appeal - When you say your a whistle blower do you mean against the system or fellow employees or both because if the latter that might explain the unions reluctance to help - also can you explain in greater detail why you sacked your legal counsel particularly after paying them thousands of pounds

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

I paid legal counsel thousands, a good portion of which for the opinion of a personal injury barrister he recommended. It turns out he knows her from college. I felt the tone of correspondance between them wavered between chummy and flirtatious. I was told that I didn't have a strong case for any of my claims, could not recommend that I take it further. Though he could continue to act for me should I wish to take that chance and keep on paying for his service. When I researched the barrister she was indeed experienced in personal injury. In the construction industry.

The whistle-blowing was against the new system but gathered up individuals in its wake. Some of these had been blatantly obstructive, others were more passive. Yet more were simply incompetent or untrained for their position. All failed in their duty, all failed in their duty of care. None should be working in public protection.

Employment Appeal Tribunal was unsuccessful. Again I had been unable to get anyone to represent me. I've tried many times to get a "no win..." solicitor. I've approached some requesting pro bono work. No one would take it on. Five years have passed since then. Throughout this time I have continued to be affected by Prolonged Duration Stress Disorder which is a recognized psychiatric injury. Such diagnosis in theory warrants my pursuing legal action against my employer outwith normal time limits. Am sick of touting round solicitors getting knock-backs all the time though. So that’s why for the moment I’m hoping to get it all out in the open via another route viz a viz any breaches of tribunal process

[righty]

Re: Employment Tribunal

You say 5years! which may explain why no one wants to take you on now. I'm sure you'll be aware that 3 years is the time limit for PI claims & your 2 years out of time. Therefore to proceed you'll need a courts consent & for that to happen you'll need to have a very good reason as to why no protective proceedings were issued before the 3 years expired.

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

No, I was well within the three year limit when I tried to get someone to represent me. I have continued to experience chronic ill-health ever since this all happened. I've made further attempts since then whenever I felt up to it as, by law, PDSD does afford leniency with regards time limits. I am not interested in reopening/getting a new tribunal against my former employer. I do not want to have to go through all that again. It's the disturbing way the tribunal conducted my case that I'm investigating. I really want to get to the bottom of this.

[zeitgit]

Re: Employment Tribunal

I think I've worked out my way forward with this. I've put a thread on "legal" as I've narrowed down some questions I need ask. I'm not sure where I go to put thanks to Glenn and righty for your help. So thank you.