Working without a contract

[JohnDee]

Hi
The small company I work for is being bought.
I just realized I never signed any contract and/or received a copy.
However I do have a letter of employment but this was long time ago and does not reflect the current pay.

Just wondering how is this going to work when the new owner is going to offer a new contract?

[Dred]

For clarity, you do have a contract of employment unless self employed.

The employer cannot change and diminish your existing prescribed/implied terms of employment without your consent and negotiation, only better your current terms.

if they try, then you must object in writing as silence is accepting by default

[JohnDee]

For clarity, you do have a contract of employment unless self employed.

The employer cannot change and diminish your existing prescribed/implied terms of employment without your consent and negotiation, only better your current terms.

if they try, then you must object in writing as silence is accepting by default

Thank you.
You say I have a contract however how do they work out the number of holidays then?

[ULA]

JohnDee the purchase of a business and the affect on you as an employee is covered by the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations or TUPE.

The effect of these regulations is that your existing terms will transfer across to your new employer. What information was contained within your original employment letter? Did it set out details of possible contractual terms such as:

1. Holiday entitlement
2. Notice period
3. Hours of work

[JohnDee]

JohnDee the purchase of a business and the affect on you as an employee is covered by the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations or TUPE.

The effect of these regulations is that your existing terms will transfer across to your new employer. What information was contained within your original employment letter? Did it set out details of possible contractual terms such as:

1. Holiday entitlement
2. Notice period
3. Hours of work

The letter includes 2 and 3 but not 1.

[ULA]

As a minimum, statutory holiday entitlement for a full time employee, is 20 days plus the 8 days of bank holidays.

[ULA]

Moved across for a new thread the OP created but the above information is relevant.


Post from JohnDee

Hi All,

I hope you are well.

The company I work for has been acquired and as I write this a handful of employees (5) are being on-boarded to the new company including myself.
From the HR department of a parent/new company I heard that the employees will be interviewed 1-on-1 by some external consultant(s) they hire to negotiate the new terms.

At the old place I was employed without a contract so as I heard from others the statutory terms apply e.g. 20 days of holiday. Now I hear it is actually 28 days of statutory holiday.
My old boss has apparently declared/pre-negotiated? that we have 25 days off annually but how realistic this is I don't know. I think the new employer could easily verify that by asking for the existing contract if this figure is indeed based on that.

I wanted to ask anybody who had gone through a similar process so I can get prepared rather than not. I also think about asking for a pay raise. I think it's a good opportunity to do that rather than after I agree to the new terms.

Please advise.
Thank you

[ULA]

JohnDee as your new thread was related to an existing thread, I have moved your post across. It is much easier for those of us advising to have all questions related to an issue on one thread.

You say you did not have a contract but you did have a letter of engagement as detailed in your post #1. As per my post #6 statutory holiday entitlement is 20 days plus the 8 days of bank holidays.

What do you mean that your old boss has apparently declared/pre-negotiated that you have 25 days off? Has he negotiated this as part of the sale of the company?

[JohnDee]

JohnDee as your new thread was related to an existing thread, I have moved your post across. It is much easier for those of us advising to have all questions related to an issue on one thread.

You say you did not have a contract but you did have a letter of engagement as detailed in your post #1. As per my post #6 statutory holiday entitlement is 20 days plus the 8 days of bank holidays.

What do you mean that your old boss has apparently declared/pre-negotiated that you have 25 days off? Has he negotiated this as part of the sale of the company?

Indeed it has been confirmed this is covered by TUPE.
Regarding the annual leave days I have no details how this was declared. The new company has an external HR system where my existing employer has put some of the information and this is what he declared apparently which would be 25+8.

Unfortunately my old letter of employment does not state the numbers of holidays only the salary and some duties.
There was a pay rise and job title change after some years of service as well but again this is not reflected in any written documents. But I have it on my LinkedIn profile.

So the point of contention will definitely be the holidays and a different job title which feels like a step backward.

[PallasAthena]

If your new bosses are saying maximum 25 paid holiday days including bank holidays refer them to the official government page here.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

If they are saying 25 days plus bank holidays (all paid) that is more than the statutory minimum.

[ULA]

As part of due diligence done under a TUPE transfer the old employer should provide the new employer with all the contractual details for each employee plus any changes since the original contract was signed. In your case, you appear not to have a signed contract but you have a letter of employment a copy of which should have gone to the new employer together with details of current job title, salary, benefits etc.

[JohnDee]

The contract of the new employer states that I should work from their office however I have moved out from the city and it's not possible for me to travel that far. Too long of a distance.
I have changed the place of living over 2 years ago and this was agreed verbally with the old employer (not in writing). I work 100% remotely for over 3 years.
The scope of my current work and what is with the new employer does not require on-site presence.
The job title is incorrect with what's in the employment letter.

On top of that there is no indication of my promotion that happened years ago.
I don't know how this can be proven but it's there on my LinkedIn page for over 5 years.

[JohnDee]

The other point of contention I can see is about the working hours.
Apart from the normal working hours it says that it is expected for me to work outside core hours of work but there is no remuneration for that.
That I agree to work for more than an average of 48h a week unless I notify them in writing at the time of signing this Contract. That I may revoke his agreement to this at any time by giving the Company no less than three months advance notice in writing.
Why would I agree to that in the first place? To do more work in exchange for what exactly?
I use to do some out of hours work without remuneration but not weekend work. This out of hours work was down to my initiative not on-call. At the new place this could well be 9.6h working hours per day.

As you can imagine I have not signed an employment contract in a while it could be some default template they send to me for initial negotiation but also a minefield probably I should consult this with a solicitor. I understand the other party wants to push the envelope all the way.

Just FYI to my previous post. The old company didn't have an office just a registered address so the work from home was the base + sporadic client visits on top.

[ULA]

Have you had any discussion with the new employer about the contract of employment and the differences from the way in which you were working for the old employer, who appears to have been not very good at their HR paperwork and either providing you a contract of employment in the first place or following up promotions, changes to work location etc in writing. Also have you asked about overtime rates?

Did your offer letter have on it place of work by any chance?

[JohnDee]

Hi again,
Yes, there is negotiation/consultation going on at the moment but there is a deadline to complete the transfer on the 1st of November so I think the new company expects new contracts to be signed. They say I can either go for their new terms (written+some benefits) or I stay on the old terms(some written some not).
I received a draft/template contract yesterday PM but this is just to discuss it in general not to sign it and it had a number of issues anyway.
There was a call to go over the items and I brought these points to them: work location, job title, 48h Work Directive, overtime.
The new contract states the overtime to be unpaid.

To answer your last question. Yes, the offer letter states that my location is my home and that I am expected to travel to visit clients and meet colleagues as required.
There were no client visits for over 3 years and I don't think this change relates to COVID / post-COVID. Basically the clients we support are over the pond and with some our former domestic clients we visited them just to get on-boarded then work remotely.
The internal company meetings happen on annual basis.

Thank you for coming back to me.