Do I need to provide a list of evidence to a grievance meeting in advance?

[Colonel]

I've got a grievance meeting coming up.
The person running the meeting said: "So that I am able to fully understand and review any documents you may wish to bring to the meeting, please ensure you share a copy of these documents with me".

My question is do I have to provide a list of incidents / evidence? Like on 1st September manager said this to me. On 1st October manager did this to me etc etc.

I do not want to provide such a list because that will give the manager time to study my points. [The manager knows the person running the meeting and their a corrupt bunch].

The organiser and the manager already know my reasons for the grievance and I don't want to provide a list of dates and quotes that I write down in my diary ...... unless I'm required to, in advance.

UK LAW

[PallasAthena]

Does your Grievance procedure say anything about this?

Your chance of "winning" will be greater if you give specifics as evidence. Showing what you wrote in your diary when it happened is stronger evidence than generalisations.

I doubt that providing the details at the meeting will give you the advantage you hope. The Manager will probably then ask for an adjournment to study your evidence. Both parties are in fairness entitled to time to study the evidence so if I were chairing I would probably grant a request for an adjournment

[atticus]

To add to that, surely the incidents in question form part of your grievance. How can you expect the particular manager to investigate your grievance without having a proper opportunity to investigate these incidents?

[Colonel]

Thanks. I'll provide evidence.


Should I also make inferences and describe my emotions from the evidence? For example:

On 01/02/2024 during a meeting the manager said “I need a young team"

I do not fit her preferred profile either by age or by length of service. I am neither young by age or length of service. Hence, it’s impossible not to make inferences from that statement that I perceive as negative towards me. This causes anxiety.



Thanks

[atticus]

That would help with understanding your grievance.

[Colonel]

I've had the grievance meeting. People present were:
A) a manager running the meeting (also a union rep)
B) a manage taking minutes / writing what was said
C) Colonel
D) my union rep (given to me by my solicitor).

The MANAGER (E) who I have the grievance against was not invited to this meeting

I think I got my points across fairly well. Did make a few errors that manager (A) picked up on about my performance (though unrelated to the actual grievance). I think manager (A) was prepped about me because there was a question she asked about my performance that she could not have known about unless told by manager (E).

Manager (A) and (B) will be investigating the grievance. They did come again to my site but did NOT interview my peers. Instead I think they interviewed other staff that I think will side with manager (E). I think (A) and (B) will be biased towards favouring manager (E) because they all work together under the corrupt regional manager.

Now I'm just waiting for the result of the investigation but I think its not going to go in my favour because my manager (E) has been laughing and joking daily. Like nothing has happened EXCEPT when she looks at me .... then she has an angry expression.


CONSTRUCTIVE COMPLAINTS will lead to CONSTRUCTIVE DISMISSAL

Managers do anything they can to stop complaints reaching Head Office. The last thing they want is complaints. They are meant to deal with customer complaints to get things fixed on site.

Today my manager (E) actively asked a customer to send in a complaint. A customer was complaining about a delay and my manager (E) told the customer to send in a complaint to head office because it will reach the regional manager. THIS IS CONSTUCTIVE TRYING TO STITCH ME UP ... I don't know what the legal term is.

I was working with a temp staff member who was only visits once in a while so any complaint wouldn't effect her. So I will get a beating for the complaint and repeated complaints will lead to dismissal.

WHAT DO I DO?
Do you think I should inform my solicitor of the incident. Give the customer ID name so if a complaint comes in its been documented that this was a constructive complaint. Or even if the complaint does not arise from this incident, it will be documented that the manager is looking for revenge.


Thanks PLEASE HELP. I wish I hadn't send in the grievance now and just suffered. I'm feeling awful.

[Retromau5]

Hello, why do you think you should have just suffered? No one should have to feel like that, your wellbeing is the number one priority here without it you can't work anyway. Do you have any access to an employee assistance service through your employer? This would help you start documenting any detrimental effects the your treatment and the whole process is having on you. Unfortunately there is little you can do other than see this process through so I would recommend getting as much help and support you can.

[Benny8902]

Hello, why do you think you should have just suffered? No one should have to feel like that, your wellbeing is the number one priority here without it you can't work anyway. Do you have any access to an employee assistance service through your employer? This would help you start documenting any detrimental effects the your treatment and the whole process is having on you. Unfortunately there is little you can do other than see this process through so I would recommend getting as much help and support you can.

You're at a disadvantage as soon as you lodge a grievance in my view. Unless you have a sufficient knowledge of how case law applies its difficult to really put the other side into a reactive stance. Reactive means you dont expect, a little bit of Sun Tzu on them.

I would do the same as you say, access employee assistance, and document everything. I would even record the conversations without alerting the employer, courts have ruled its bad taste but a necessary evil to do so.

[Colonel]

Employee assistance. There probably is one and I'll have to contact HR.

But I've been assigned a solicitor by my insurer. The solicitor then assigned me a union representative.

So I've got a solicitor who is aware of the case. So thought he would be the best person to just document that the manager (E) is fishing for complaints / encouraging customers to complain about me.

Isn't there a legal term for this? Constructive something?


An employee assistant is probably just going to add more confusion. I'm already dealing with a solicitor and union representative

[ULA]

If you have an insurer appointed solicitor then I suggest you speak to them about what has happened. Document the date and time the conversation between the manager and the customer took place.

In terms if the grievance there is nothing further you can do until you know the outcome but you will have the right to appeal.

Are you thinking if constructive dismissal which is where an individual tesigns as the last resort of a serious breach of contract by an employer

[Colonel]

^^ I'm going to go to my solicitor with the CONSTRUCTING COMPLAINTS incident that I mentioned.

There were two managers interviewing staff about the grievance. I asked them if they were going to be interviewing "all the staff" and received the reply "NO CERTAIN STAFF"
I asked if they could interview Major (the person who does the same job as me). They replied "ABSOLUTELY NOT"

Surely my peers should be interviewed too. Should I mention that to my solicitor too, now? Or wait until the appeal if things don't go my way?

Am I interfering in the investigation by asking the investigators those questions?

UK LAW

[Retromau5]

In a work place investigation, its down to the employer to decide how they proceed with the investigation. If its not done properly it'll open them up to alsorts of claims further down the line, but that's their decision so for the moment your in their hands.

Most people get to go through their working life oblivious to this kind of process, but when you're here you look around and see countless other in similar situations as yourself. Its the reason why there are many solicitors who specialise in employment law. Internal complaints are a threat to your organisation, you may have only complained about your manager but the implications go further than this and effect others. If your grievance is upheld what then? The regional manager has to answer for that, do you think they want to?

I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, quite the opposite, your defending yourself and your rights as you should be able to. But nobody is ever going thank you for it. So for now try and put any anxiety and stress to one side (and believe me, I know how hard this can be) and be objective about this. If you feel you should object to something, do it in an email and start your own chain of evidence with them. If they reply verbally then send another email confirming what was said and whether you agree with them or not and tell them how it's having an adverse effect on you. I did this (and other things) for 8 months with my former employer and the information I got out of them is better than I could ever have hoped for.

So there you go, I hope this kind of makes sense and helps in some way.

[Benny8902]

^^ I'm going to go to my solicitor with the CONSTRUCTING COMPLAINTS incident that I mentioned.

There were two managers interviewing staff about the grievance. I asked them if they were going to be interviewing "all the staff" and received the reply "NO CERTAIN STAFF"
I asked if they could interview Major (the person who does the same job as me). They replied "ABSOLUTELY NOT"

Surely my peers should be interviewed too. Should I mention that to my solicitor too, now? Or wait until the appeal if things don't go my way?

Am I interfering in the investigation by asking the investigators those questions?

UK LAW

The employer's omissions are at there own fault if you proceed to a legal setting. Others have provided helpful tips.

Remember as well;

Know your enemy and know yourself, and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.

[Colonel]

Thanks everyone

[Colonel]

SUMMARY / REMINDER of what's going on: I've got a grievance against my manager because of (i) ageist remarks (ii) asking me to cut corners that may put public at risk (WHISTEBLOWING??) (iii) I have to work through my lunch and after shift because managers over books jobs to make money (iv) few more bits

GRIEVANCE MEETING OUTCOME: They favoured the manager overall ... felt like 95% favouring the manager

APPEAL: I've put in an appeal and knocked grievance outcome because the person investigating my grievance hadn't even read my evidence etc etc. It was flawed. I went through each point she made and slammed it. I'm waiting for their response

MY COLLEAGUE (lets call her JANE) who does the same job as me was interviewed, and if she really did back my opinion (as she said she did), the her opinions were disregarded by the interviewer.

JANE GOT A GRIEVANCE made against her today: One of the staff (lets say SUSAN) accused her of bullying her for 3 years. This is a lie. I think the manager (who I've got a grievance against) put SUSAN up to it just to get some heat off her. This is constructive something or other

CORRUPT REGIONAL MANAGER has asked for a team meeting to chat about best ways to work as a team WITH THE MANAGER PRESENT.

QUESTION: Should I attend the Regional managers meeting but say I'm not commenting on anything because I've got my own grievance underway and need my union representative to be present OR do not attend the meeting?

Please advise