Application for better Particulars on the respondents ET3

[ULA]

From the commentary on the Serco Ltd v Wells [2016] UKEAT 0330/1 that would appear to be the case in terms of set aside.

I have looked at another couple of EAT decisions and cannot find anything useful to help.

It may be that you have to restate your submissions based on point a) and c) of the overriding objectives. Try and point out why the Judge erred in agreeing with the arguments of the Respondent.

[Benny8902]

From the commentary on the Serco Ltd v Wells [2016] UKEAT 0330/1 that would appear to be the case in terms of set aside.

I have looked at another couple of EAT decisions and cannot find anything useful to help.

It may be that you have to restate your submissions based on point a) and c) of the overriding objectives. Try and point out why the Judge erred in agreeing with the arguments of the Respondent.

Thank you.

So that would just be apart of the submissions in my application for the decision to be set aside?

Think its worth to chuck in the principle of Equality of Arms? Re;

"The principle of equality of arms - one of the elements of the broader concept of fair trial requires that each party should be afforded a reasonable opportunity to present his or her case
under conditions that do not place him or her at a substantial disadvantage vis-á-vis his or her
opponent"


In all honesty I feel like this decision should be decided by a higher court as I feel like I have a good arguement. It sort of feels like my position would be misconceived if I was to have application to set aside.

[Benny8902]

Hi ULA so the doctor has informed me after a week or so that GP reports are not provided - only patient summary are provided, as we know through case law they are not much use within ET proceedings. Typical state the condition and medication, which is included on medical records.

So my question was does it matter if I don't provide it as no order was made, as you can see from wording in document i sent in private message. So i can just provide the medical records i rely upon to the ET and other side at a reasonable time as no order for disclosure was made? Including some documents which prove they ought to/had constructive knowledge.

should I be submitting them in any format? If so what format should I use to make them clear?

Is that not weird to not order me to disclose them as well? Seems very weird to me, previously i did disclose what i had available and it helped to narrow down why disability was still disputed (as is their right) but seems weird

[ULA]

No you have not been given specific orders of what to provide to prove your disability status but it does state "the claimant will require to ensure that all documents upon which he relies, including his GP report......"

I set out in my post #73 some of the documents you should be submitting, if you have them, including any specialist consultant report, any occupational health reports and a disability impact statement. The wording also clearly states a GP report, so even if it is only a medical summary, then I would suggest that is included as it has been requested. I would also suggest your GP is asked to confirm in writing, as part of that information, about not providing a medical report.

The overarching objective of this is for you to prove that you are disabled under the meaning of the Equality Act 2010, as this will be the factor determined at the next hearing.

In terms of format I would suggest you do a mini bundle which should be set out in chronological order of evidence, paginated and with an index.

[Retromau5]

I wrote the following information in post 7 for you.

28th January 2024, 21:26:PM
Benny8902 some things for you to think about:

DISABILITY DISCRIMINATION

1, Gather as much physical evidence as possible, sick notes, emails, medical records (include any medication you take), occupational health reports etc.
2, You're going to need to identify the nature of the disability, how it has had a substantial effect on your ability to perform everyday activities i.e. Getting dressed, sleeping, concentration, communication with other people etc.
3, in what way you've been discriminated against, by who and when if possible.
4, You'll need to show that your employer would have reasonably been expected to be aware of your disability. You don't necessarily have to have told them you're disabled, but that they were aware that you had some sort of a condition.

Your case looks very complicated. Hope it going okay for you.

[Benny8902]

I wrote the following information in post 7 for you.

28th January 2024, 21:26:PM
Benny8902 some things for you to think about:

DISABILITY DISCRIMINATION

1, Gather as much physical evidence as possible, sick notes, emails, medical records (include any medication you take), occupational health reports etc.
2, You're going to need to identify the nature of the disability, how it has had a substantial effect on your ability to perform everyday activities i.e. Getting dressed, sleeping, concentration, communication with other people etc.
3, in what way you've been discriminated against, by who and when if possible.
4, You'll need to show that your employer would have reasonably been expected to be aware of your disability. You don't necessarily have to have told them you're disabled, but that they were aware that you had some sort of a condition.

Your case looks very complicated. Hope it going okay for you.

Thanks. Yeah I have already provided the impact statement. It was just the fact they've not conducted this as a normal ET process.

Yeah very complicated. Lots of moving parts but this was expected.

For point 4 I have grievances which concern constructive knowledge I just need be careful as part of them are not claims I bought.

[Benny8902]

No you have not been given specific orders of what to provide to prove your disability status but it does state "the claimant will require to ensure that all documents upon which he relies, including his GP report......"

I set out in my post #73 some of the documents you should be submitting, if you have them, including any specialist consultant report, any occupational health reports and a disability impact statement. The wording also clearly states a GP report, so even if it is only a medical summary, then I would suggest that is included as it has been requested. I would also suggest your GP is asked to confirm in writing, as part of that information, about not providing a medical report.

The overarching objective of this is for you to prove that you are disabled under the meaning of the Equality Act 2010, as this will be the factor determined at the next hearing.

In terms of format I would suggest you do a mini bundle which should be set out in chronological order of evidence, paginated and with an index.

For the index, would that just be in alphabetical order? Such A - xxxx B - xxxx or another format?

On the other points for w statements I appealed on this and passed the sift stage. Really gave them both *

[ULA]

The index has to be based on the chronological order of the documents, which I set out in my last post as the suggested way you need to present this information. Beside each document heading in the index you need to state the associated.page number.

[ULA]

Response based on the documents sent via PM
.
From the preliminary notes is is clear that the respondent has not conceded disability, therefore at the next hearing you need to have provided a bundle of documents that proves you have a disability as defined by the EqA 2010 and that the respondent was either aware of your disability or would have reasonably been expected to be aware of your disability.

It is clear from the respondent's email of 27 Sept 2023 that for them, disability had not been proven, however given your picture on dark which you say was in your grievance and if this was in advance of the date of the email, then it clearly sets out impacts of a condition / disability on your on day-to-day activities. Although from what you PM'd me there was nothing specific about your working environment but that may be contained elsewhere in the grievance.

Again the snapshot of the impact statement predominately covers impact on domestic life but I assume you have covered the impact it had on your working environment. If not then I suggest you update the statement to include that as part of this bundle you are preparing.

This means that the bundle of documents you are producing need to evidence both:

a) that your condition is a disability under the EqA 2010 and I have detailed how you evidence this is previous posts but it should be a combination of medical information from GP, specialist, OH etc and your impact statement.

b) that your employer knew of your condition that may qualify as a disability or would have reasonably been expected to be aware of your condition / disability.

You may want to consider splitting your bundle into two sections and have medical evidence as to disability including your impact statement followed by evidence the respondent was aware of or should reasonably been aware of your disability. Just make it clear in the bundle index how you are presenting this and if you decide on 2 sections then both need to be chronologically ordered.

I would add a wording of warning this bundle needs to be relevant to the above 2 points and should not contain documents that deal with other aspects of your claim. Point 8 of the prelim notes, where you are ordered to provide this evidence is under the hearing of Disability Status and that is specifically what is being determined by these documents.

[Benny8902]

Response based on the documents sent via PM
.
From the preliminary notes is is clear that the respondent has not conceded disability, therefore at the next hearing you need to have provided a bundle of documents that proves you have a disability as defined by the EqA 2010 and that the respondent was either aware of your disability or would have reasonably been expected to be aware of your disability.

It is clear from the respondent's email of 27 Sept 2023 that for them, disability had not been proven, however given your picture on dark which you say was in your grievance and if this was in advance of the date of the email, then it clearly sets out impacts of a condition / disability on your on day-to-day activities. Although from what you PM'd me there was nothing specific about your working environment but that may be contained elsewhere in the grievance.

Again the snapshot of the impact statement predominately covers impact on domestic life but I assume you have covered the impact it had on your working environment. If not then I suggest you update the statement to include that as part of this bundle you are preparing.

This means that the bundle of documents you are producing need to evidence both:

a) that your condition is a disability under the EqA 2010 and I have detailed how you evidence this is previous posts but it should be a combination of medical information from GP, specialist, OH etc and your impact statement.

b) that your employer knew of your condition that may qualify as a disability or would have reasonably been expected to be aware of your condition / disability.

You may want to consider splitting your bundle into two sections and have medical evidence as to disability including your impact statement followed by evidence the respondent was aware of or should reasonably been aware of your disability. Just make it clear in the bundle index how you are presenting this and if you decide on 2 sections then both need to be chronologically ordered.

I would add a wording of warning this bundle needs to be relevant to the above 2 points and should not contain documents that deal with other aspects of your claim. Point 8 of the prelim notes, where you are ordered to provide this evidence is under the hearing of Disability Status and that is specifically what is being determined by these documents.

Thank you. Yes, the picture is dark predates the 27th September by a few weeks. I also detailed later on which was a point of law the impact of work enviroment elsewhere.

I will update the impact statement as suggested to cover that as well. I didnt think the Judge wanted that as his order only said;

". The effects of each condition on his day-to-day living activities (ignoring the effects of any treatment used to alleviate these effects)."

For point B should I disregard the snapshot from 27th Sept in the bundle as I was thinking this could be evidence of they "ought to have known" based on the content of that message?

If I split into 2, it would be Bundle 1 the disability/impact and Bundle 2, how they knew etc, and in chronological order of date, with an index of the documents?

I have sent you a message for example of the way I want to index it could you have a look at it?


Thank you again ULA

[DrJoe]

Received the respondent's ET3, throughout the ET3 'Grounds of Resistance' I have noted inaccuracies with dates, actions, and matters relating to grievances, including a new "allegation" they have put on me which has never been documented before or raised and they had plenty of opportunity, seems to be stuck inside to just "lie" - "SAR" shows this is a lie though.

My question is should I submit a "FURTHER AND BETTER PARTICULARS" request under 'Rule 31 of Schedule 1 to the Employment Tribunals (Constitution & Rules of Procedure) Regulations 2013' and use close ended questions, such as:

• In relation to paragraph X of the ET3 response dated 'x', did the Claimant object to 'something'? Additionally, can you provide any documentation from grievances confirming whether the Claimant stated his objection was during "a period" or after the fact?

Around 30 questions would follow the above format but with 'yes' or 'no' appended so they can't plead a case or wiggle free. Would this be allowed?

It would be used for the below reasons;

• Seeking essential clarity to allow you bring/defend the claim;
• 1o expose weaknesses and encourage settlement;
• To hit a pressure point and encourage settlement;
• To limit the extent of the claim;
• To highlight weaknesses for the Judge/Panel at Trial

Would it be wise to make an application?

Or should I wait until after the PH (1st one) which is due in 3 weeks, and then raise these issues?

How should I proceed?

Can any 'case law' be provided which would assist me. I have searched and can't find any which would be "useful" in these circumstances.

Scotland. I am a litigant in person

Prior to the PH the respondent will likely send you over a list of issues to agree on for the PH.

You can add them to it if you wish, seeking clarity about the allegations and what they refer too. But this is them preparing their defence so it could also be benefit to pull them apart in the final hearing, if you think you wouldn`t have a problem doing it.

If you are confident of winning you could also move to strike out that aspect of the grounds of defence, meaning they have to put up £1000 or drop the allegations.

I am not a legal expert, I`ve been using a legal AI to help prepare my own. They are cheaper than a solicitor if interested!

[ULA]

DrJoe this case has moved on over 3 pages of threads and the OP has now passed that PHR stage.

Also please do not rely on legal AI for preparing your ET claim, it is not reliable and could actually harm your case. Much better to get human expert help, even if via a forum such as this, if solicitor advice is unaffordable.

[Benny8902]

Hi ULA

I read through the guidance more for EqA and I get what you mean by impact on working enviroment, it safes to assume I can provide evidence I have based on information I got from the SAR to back up what I say in my impact/med records about the effect of my conditions on "activities" within work, before I asserted what I recently sent you in an message?

and their is nothing wrong with updating my impact statement to be more clear and provide specific examples?

[ULA]

On your index you PM'd me I have reviewed and made amendments and attached below.

Good that you can evidence the impact on your work environment, however keep that shorter than what you set out for your day to day living activities, given that is the emphasis set out in the order.

The email of 27 Sept does set out about making a reasonable adjustment under disability law, so I would consider adding it into the bundle under the Constructive Knowledge section.

Your impact statement should be as up-to-date as possible but again make it relevant and specific - no waffle.

In respect of the further documents you PM'd on the constructive knowledge point of another grievance, how long is that document as it appears to have a lot of quoted case law. I am just concerned as to overall how long this bundle may become and making sure it is kept relevant.

[Benny8902]

On your index you PM'd me I have reviewed and made amendments and attached below.

Good that you can evidence the impact on your work environment, however keep that shorter than what you set out for your day to day living activities, given that is the emphasis set out in the order.

The email of 27 Sept does set out about making a reasonable adjustment under disability law, so I would consider adding it into the bundle under the Constructive Knowledge section.

Your impact statement should be as up-to-date as possible but again make it relevant and specific - no waffle.

In respect of the further documents you PM'd on the constructive knowledge point of another grievance, how long is that document as it appears to have a lot of quoted case law. I am just concerned as to overall how long this bundle may become and making sure it is kept relevant.

Thank you.

Yes I was definitely considering adding that one statement to the bundle as the Court of Appeal basically said that a statement like that can draw a strong interference of constructive knowledge.



The document on grievance is around 16 pages and deals with claims I did not advance. But those parts cover 2 pages, so I take it could just extra those parts redact the opening of the document as that deals with claims I didn't bring and put it the bundle.

For adding documengs to the bundle if they are in paper format, do i just scan them then import to the document you amended and attached?