OH said not to attend work due to being Covid positive. Im facing a written warning

[Scrumpy11]

Dear Team,

I work for a major car company as a production operative.

We broke up for Christmas on the 23rd December, we were supposed to start back on the 2nd January. Unfortunately, my partner, a Nurse, tested positive for covid on Boxing day. I tested positive (also symptomatic) on the 30th December, ruining our New Year.

I emailed HR and Occupational Health for advice. I received a response from OH on the 2nd January, informing me: In line with the company's policy and government guidelines, I am not to attend work. I am to Isolate for 5 days.

Due to OH's advice I never attended work on the 2nd January, where I was due to start shift at 2100. On the morning of the 3rd January, I received advice from HR. HR stated that it was their policy for me not to attend work and I was to isolate for 5 days. Further to this, HR went on to state that I would be disciplined for non-attendance, as it will be recorded as unauthorised absence.

Later that night, I received a phone call from the Union Rep, stating I need to obtain a DR's note. Due to non-attendance after a holiday, the company will come down on me hard and I will receive a written warning.

I have challenged this both with HR and OH. OH are stating that any disciplinary is down to HR/ Business and my manager. HR are stating that I must appeal the decision, once given upon my return to work if I am not happy. This would mean I would have to sign to say I agree with their decision.

I am lost on how you can be told not to attend work by OH then disciplined by the company.

HR sent me some info stating that the company is now treating Covid like the FLU. If an employee attends work and tests positive for covid then he is to be sent home. If an employee tests positive for covid at home, then he is not to attend work. I am pretty sure that if an employee had FLY then he would be required to attend work and would not be sent home.

Is there anything I can do? The Union; Management and HR are all corrupt. OH are scared to put anything in writing or do the right thing as they are contractors.


This cannot be right!

I appreciate any assistance you maybe able to offer


Kind regards


SB

[echat11]

I think you need to write some letters, but when you write these letters, copy in the 'Heads' of OH, Human Resources and the Union.

If you copy them all in, highlighting the mixed messages, I guarantee that they will all see things in a clearer light.

No doubt ULA will be along soon.

[ULA]

Your received the OH advice by email, however did you phone in sick prior to the start of your shift at 21:00. If you did not and the company sickness absence policies requires you to do so then this may be the issue and the reason they are treating it as unauthorised absence.

[Scrumpy11]

Your received the OH advice by email, however did you phone in sick prior to the start of your shift at 21:00. If you did not and the company sickness absence policies requires you to do so then this may be the issue and the reason they are treating it as unauthorised absence.

Evening Ula.

Please excuse the length of the email trail. However, may give you an idea of what I am facing. If I sign; agree to my companies disciplinary. I will have no grounds to appeal. I am not sure if I can refuse to sign it as the union stated last time I had no choice. I am lost.

I emailed HR and OH. I also messaged my manager at 1830, informing him of my situation. Further to this I called him at 2130 as I stated I would within the message sent at 1830. Company policy states I have 4 hours from the start of shift to phone in.

Wed 03rd at 0915 - HR's response:

Thank you for contacting HR Direct.

As requested, please see attached a copy of the Covid FAQ guidance as published in People Portal.

I've also copied the information on the People Portal guidance page relating to this below for your reference:

The company guidance for managing coronavirus (covid-19) remains in place.

Colleagues that have tested positive for the virus should stay home to recover in line with recommended isolation periods.
If a manager is made aware of a colleague testing positive for covid-19 they should send the colleague home in line with recommended isolation periods.

Thank you for your email dated the 03rd January, informing me not to attend work. Further to this it also mentions that my absence will not be AMP exempt.

03 Jan - 1702 - My email to HR

Please see below emails from Occupational Health, dated 02nd January, informing me to not attend work following me testing positive for covid following JLR's Procedure. I followed Occupation Health's Advice; I was informed not to attend work.

I know wish to formally challenge the Attendance Management Procedure which according to Ms CP (Occupational Health), is a HR/ Business procedure of which I need to appeal with my Manager and HR.

Reasons for appeal of procedure: -

How can *** have a procedure where: On one hand, *** are informing employees not to attend work. Then on the other hand, then inform employees that they will be disciplined for not attending work? This is a conflict of information.
Why is there no phone number to contact HR? There used to be, where we could abstain prompt advice. It took over a day for HR to get back to me information pertaining to Covid procedures. This took me past my initial return date to work, 02 January 2023.
There was no alternative offered. The only instructions given, was "not to attend site".
If procedures were changed in 2022, why were employees not informed?
If it is ***s position that Covid should be treated as FLU, then why give advice to stay away from work?

I appreciate any assistance you may be able to offer.

04 Jan - 0915 - HRs response:

Thank you for your feedback.

While I appreciate the guidance provided may not have been the response you were hoping for I can confirm it is correct in line with the current process. This is applied fairly and consistently to all *** employee's to ensure our safety and wellbeing in line with the current NHS guidelines.

I can advise these guidelines are regularly reviewed by the Occupational Health and HR teams in conjunction with management and Trade Union to ensure they remain in line with current best practice. Where any changes are made due to updates in the guideline, these are published in the People Portal system for employee's to review in line with the guidance I sent over for you in my previous message for employee's to refer to. In line with this I can confirm employees were informed of the guidance changes when the published guidance was updated following the changes in Government rules in 2022.

Regarding the Attendance Management Procedure, please note that where you find you have moved onto a formal stage of the AMP and you wish to challenge the progression you've been advised of, you can look to use the Appeal process. To do this please ensure you submit the grounds for your appeal to your manager within 5 days of being advised of the formal stage progression on AMP. They will then be able to ensure this is reviewed and followed up for you.

Regarding your query on the HR phonelines, while we no longer have the phone lines due to the service model being updated a few years ago we now have the Ask HR chat service which enables employees to go through directly to an HR consultant when needed.


04 Jan - 1111 - my response to HR

Guidance I Received:

While I appreciate that the guidance I received, not to attend work due to being Covid Positive, was correct. Would I also be correct in stating that this then was an 'Authorised' Absence? This guidance was given by Occupational Health, who were following current government; JLR guidelines.

If my absence is to be classed as Unauthorised, then is JLR saying that I should ignore Occupational Health's Guidance and I should have attended work?

Peoples Portal:

Ever since the Portal has been introduced, I have had problems with signing in. This has been looked at by your IT team on numerous occasions. My passwords are all stored within a software management programme, so there is no possibility I have been entering the incorrect passwords. I am sure my complaint emails to your IT department will confirm my statement to be true.

Employees were informed of the guidance changes when the published guidance was updated following the changes in Government rules in 2022:

May I ask how Employees were informed? I do not have any recollection of ever receiving any email informing me of any changes. Especially ones informing me that either:

I must follow Occupational Health's advice and not attend site. However, I will be disciplined.
I must ignore Occupational Health's Advice and I must attend work to avoid being disciplined.

Please forgive me for being confused on the advice I am receiving. I require the information for my return to work, once I am well enough.


Please note: To-Date: No feedback has not been left. This is due to my query's have not been resolved. I have never heard of the 'ASK HR' Chat service. Moving forward, this sounds like a great service. I will contact JLR's IT service to see if things have improved with the Employee Portal, since I last tried.

I appreciate any assistance you maybe able to offer.



04 Jan - 1140 - HR's response:

Hi Steven,

Thank you for your reply.

Please note that I have to advise in line with the published guidance. In line with this the absence would be considered as normal sickness absence when being managed in line with the AMP.

Where your manager has received alternate guidance from the Occupational Health team, they will need to liaise with them to clarify their understanding of what should be entered in the time and attendance systems and why the Occupational Health team have advised of any changes as an exception to normal procedure.

Regarding any issues you have with signing in through the New Forgerock system, In line with my previous guidance please note that if you have any issues with the procedure guidance, you will need to contact the IT Helpdesk for support as HR Direct do not support this system directly:

*******

Regarding your query on communications previously issued. I can confirm a company communication was sent out on the 1st April from the Head of Occupational Health with follow up articles in the Team Talk publication beginning from the one issued on 4th April 2022 advising of the guidance updates in People Portal. For ease of reference I've copied the articles below for you. (Please note due to the age of the publications the links would no longer work as the old pages would have been replaced by the updated ones.):

Covid-19 update 1 April 2022: Living with Covid

Dear colleague

The global pandemic continues to be a worldwide challenge and will remain so for some time. In the UK, we are moving to the next phase of ‘Living with Covid’ plan. Effective today, 1 April, the guidance has been updated.

In line with this, we have updated our guidance:

If you have symptoms of Covid-19 - a high temperature; a new, continuous cough; or a loss of or change to your sense of smell or taste - please stay at home, do not come to work, and avoid contact with other people, until you feel well enough to resume normal activities, and no longer have a high temperature
You do not need to test for Covid-19 unless you are in one of the government’s recommended groups
If you do test positive for Covid-19, please stay at home, do not come to work, and avoid contact with people for five days, which is when you are most infectious. You can then return to normal activities if you feel well enough, and no longer have a high temperature
Government free testing for Covid-19 will end for most people. You may be able to get free rapid lateral flow tests in certain instances, e.g. you are at high risk of getting ill from Covid-19. Our on-site test centres have closed, as has Workplace Collect
The below guidance remains in place:

Whilst face masks are no longer mandatory you can continue to wear one if you wish. Certain circumstances may require masks e.g. physiotherapy
If you test positive or feel unwell, please let your manager know
Over the past two years, we have all had to deal with huge amounts of change and uncertainty – and we have all pulled together, working tirelessly and keeping each other safe.



Since March 2020, we have:

Taken 1.68 million temperature checks
Delivered 9,300 vaccinations in our on-site vaccination programme with the NHS
Performed over 100,000 Covid tests in our test centres on site
I’d particularly like to thank our on-site testing, business protection and health and safety teams.



We do not know exactly what the future is for this pandemic globally, but as a company and as colleagues, we are better prepared for whatever may happen. Thank you all, again, for your unwavering support, flexibility, understanding and kindness towards each other during this time.

As before, if you have concerns where you find you progress onto a formal stage of the AMP, please look to use the Appeals process where you wish to challenge the progression where you are notified of this in your return to work.

As I trust this resolves your follow up query I will now close this ticket.

Kind regards



I appreciate any assistance you are able to offer me. The company I work for are a large vehicle manufacturing company who shows little regard for its employees. I am lost how they can instruct us to do one thing, then discipline us for following their guidelines.


Regards

SB

[Scrumpy11]

Your received the OH advice by email, however did you phone in sick prior to the start of your shift at 21:00. If you did not and the company sickness absence policies requires you to do so then this may be the issue and the reason they are treating it as unauthorised absence.

Evening ULA,

I phoned my manager prior to start of shift. I also messaged him to inform him of the situation, informing him I would phone him just before the shift commenced. However, my company says, we are not questioning why you were off, its the fact you were off. This absence triggers a stage within are Attendance Management Programme (AMP.) I find it hard to believe that they can apply this to Covid and the fact that OH informed me not to attend site following my company's own guidelines.

I will copy and paste the email trail so far.....

[Scrumpy11]

[QUOTE=ULA;n1664086]

OH Email trail

My initial email (2nd Jan) 0830:

"On boxing day my partner tested positive for covid, it hit her really bad.

On Friday the 29th, I was at work (overtime), i started to feel unwell. On Saturday 30th December I tested positive for Covid. I am symptomatic, with Fatigue, High Temperature, chesty cough, runny nose and my joints ache.

I am due to start back to work on nights.

What is the company's policy on Covid? If I was to take this week off until better, would I be disciplined? Or is covid AMP exempt?"

Internal email from OH and senior OH managers - (Jan 02 at 12:15):

Can you please advise from the email trail below as the employee is afraid encase, they get disciplined for this and wants to confirm on if they should go into work ?

I have advised them not to go in just to be on the safe side and wanted to double check with yours on
what the company policy is for covid ?

Their manager will not be able to respond to email until later in the day as they will be on nightshift and
employee can’t get a hold of them.


OH senior manager (CP) response (Jan 02 at 12:24):

*** recommend staying at home for 5 days if the employee has tested Positive for Covid.

[Scrumpy11]

[QUOTE=ULA;n1664086]

HR Emails

03 Jan – 1702: Email to HR

Thank you for your email dated the 03rd January, informing me not to attend work. Further to this it also mentions that my absence will not be AMP exempt.
Please see below emails from Occupational Health, dated 02nd January, informing me to not attend work following me testing positive for covid following ***'s Procedure. I followed Occupation Health’s Advice; I was informed not to attend work.

I know wish to formally challenge the Attendance Management Procedure which according to Ms CP (Occupational Health), is a HR/ Business procedure of which I need to appeal with my Manager and HR.

Reasons for appeal of procedure: -

How can *** have a procedure where: On one hand, *** are informing employees not to attend work. Then on the other hand, then inform employees that they will be disciplined for not attending work? This is a conflict of information.
Why is there no phone number to contact HR? There used to be, where we could abstain prompt advice. It took over a day for HR to get back to me information pertaining to Covid procedures. This took me past my initial return date to work, 02 January 2023.
There was no alternative offered. The only instructions given, was "not to attend site".
If procedures were changed in 2022, why were employees not informed?
If it is ***'s position that Covid should be treated as FLU, then why give advice to stay away from work?

[Scrumpy11]

[QUOTE=ULA;n1664086]

Please see attached document for my complaints to HR with their response.

Thank you for your assistance

[EXC]

Scrumpy11 I can see that the post you've been trying to make has been caught by our spam filter in error, so I've approved the original post which is now showing as post #4.

Tagging ULA for you.

[ULA]

It seems like your company has an Absence Management Policy in place. On the company statement dated 1 April 2022 it references the AMP and there is an indication there that absence for Covid will be treated within that policy.

Is your argument that because you were following company guidelines in relation to not attending work if you have Covid, then you should not be subject to this process?

[Scrumpy11]

It seems like your company has an Absence Management Policy in place. On the company statement dated 1 April 2022 it references the AMP and there is an indication there that absence for Covid will be treated within that policy.

Is your argument that because you were following company guidelines in relation to not attending work if you have Covid, then you should not be subject to this process?

Afternoon,

There is an Attendance Management Procedure ("AMP") in place at work.

I have been informed that my absence will go down as sick. However, if I find myself at a final review, it will be removed.

My argument: I was instructed not to attend work by Occupation Health, which was confirmed latter that day by my manager, then by HR the following day. How can this be classed as unauthorised absence? How can I do disciplined. Employees are being sent home if tested positives for coved, then find themselves going down the AMP? This cannot be right!

I appreciate any assistance of which you can offer.


Kind Regards


SB

[ULA]

That instruction given by both OH and HR was in line with the previously notified Covid 19 update of 1 April 2022.

Given that you contacted your manager to advise of your absence prior to the shift start, then I am unsure as to why it is considered to be unauthorised. In practice unauthorised would be if someone failed to make contact in the required time to notify of a sickness absence.

If they are putting you on the AMP because you were absent due to Covid sickness and that is part of the policy and would be if you had been off with flu, then I am not sure there is much you can do about that as the AMP is being applied consistently.

[Scrumpy11]

[QUOTE=ULA;n1664321]

Evening Ula,

Thank you for your advice. However, please forgive me as I am confused. The last time the Attendance Management Programme was officially updated was November 2019, I received a copy on the 13 October 2023, from HR,. there was no mention of any amendments . The document which was attached to HR's amendments which was allegedly put up on the Peoples Portal dated April 2022, The Portal is a place employees can go to obtain information pertaining to the company. I as many other employees have had issues signing in to this portal due to IT issues. So much so, we gave up as my companies IT team could not help. However, over the years, we have received regular updates from the company. I have reviewed emails, at no point was it mentioned of any changes to our AMP regarding any changes in 2022. This despite we had regular emails regarding covid.

I am lost on how a company can instruct an employee not to attend work following their guidelines. Then say it will still go down their AMP. This would also apply to employees who have been sent home following testing positive for covid19. My company is in fact stating we should ignore their own instructions.

As for the 'Unauthorised' absence, I am lost. I guess time will tell when I go back to work. Both my partner (nurse - private), and I are now testing negative. However, the DR has put us both off for another week due to being symptomatic with a fever. Its on our chest.

Thank you for your guidance/ advice.


Kind regards,


Stevieb

[ULA]

I think it is difficult to assist further until, as you say, you get back to work once you have recovered. Sorry to hear you and your wife have been left with other symptoms even though you are now negative.

When you have further details of what is going to be actioned by your employer just come back to this thread with any further questions.

[Scrumpy11]

I think it is difficult to assist further until, as you say, you get back to work once you have recovered. Sorry to hear you and your wife have been left with other symptoms even though you are now negative.

When you have further details of what is going to be actioned by your employer just come back to this thread with any further questions.

Evening Ula,

I really appreciate all your guidance. I understand it difficult without all the facts.

Thank you again


Kind regards


Stevieb