Restricted access to information for evidencing a greivance

[Presonus]

Hi I wrote a reply but unfortunately it has disappeared.

In a nutshell, yes I will give an update as I think it's important to be aware of outcomes and obviously if all goes well we can close the book on it tidily.

Thanks for saying not to worry, for me defending my job is a very financial and social matter, financially I need it to support my family, and unfortunately a lot of supporting, my brother works in the same company and does very little for the vulnerable people in the family by comparison (I appreciate looking after people is optional but it's what we do, right?) - I am very much holding things up so I would consider a financial impact to be extremely hostile, especially considering that part of my bullying grievance already consists of financial impact due to bullying, i.e skipped and altered pay reviews that are contractual etc.

Socially it's also important (being moved teams etc) because one of the root causes of my health is social exclusion, isolation which is something that has been (albeit seperate to the disciplinary) a major concern at work due to certain events and treatment by the wider team as well as management.

Obviously I might need to meet in the middle, which I will try to be reasonable about, but I am going to be considering how fair and proportionate the outcome is. The main charge of the disciplinary is a matter of integrity as I acted on information I was privvy to due to my role which this information unfortunately evidenced bullying against me, technically you can argue I shouldn't have, but I did raise my concerns through the right channels (whistleblowing, greivance etc) so the info wasn't abused or used for personal gain which health aside is the main mitigation point. During the whole process, other peoples information has been accidentally disclosed by management (such as phone numbers, home address data etc) of witnesses speaking against myself, also the investigator himself has disclosed previously sensitive business documents to peoples personal email addresses which would, at a literal level, breach the same rule that I am myself charged with (acting in information in contrary of a need to know basis). On this basis one of the things I'm going to consider is disparity in treatment in light of the fact that during this process the investigation team have effectively done the equivalent on more than one occasion.

I do fear a bit of an attempt of a whitewash by management, and that i will be hit with a heavier penalty than those who have done similar yet are in a leadership position - I want to be proven wrong on this and hope that I am but the risk is real.

[Presonus]

Just an update to say no update, whilst I could hear something today, the imminent decision doesn't seem to have been 'that' imminent.

I do have a question though - depending on what the outcome is, this may not be the end of the matter. It will be for my employer in that their internal process is finished, but for me it won't be over as it very much may become an appeal or tribunal/legal matter. In all fairness, whilst I would like matters to be resolved amicably, given my treatment thus far, I am operating on the assumption it will ultimately go to court in the absence of intervention from my employer to make it not necessary.

I have now asked for access to evidence that we all know exists, on more times than I care count. Whats more, other items have likely been lost permanently due to the companys retention period for certain types data, which we would have been able to access had the requests been served timely.

Now, it's allright the company saying that they don't need my evidence to make a judgement, but I'm going to hazard a guess going forward a legal team on my side would want to see it, as would any judge.

I think, whilst I was encouraged by the fact the company seems to be finally making some positive steps, that i may have been a bit blinded to the fact the battle isn't over and the core fact remains I may have to evidence an argument and the company remains blocking access to this.

Am I raising these concerns prematurely? I know, for example, if they dropped the matter than a tribunal would be totally unnecessary, but given I already know a disciplinary manager has effectively stepped down/been removed due to making shall we say ' decisions that dud not consider all aspects provided' (I don't think I'm supposed to know this, but I've asked directly why suddenly my disciplinary team have changed and you get snippets) I think we already have enough information to form a reasonable assessment at this stage that a fair, considered outcome isn't likely and that negative outcomes remain very much possible.

What I'm basically saying is the request for evidence isn't solely just to to prove the case to my employer, it's to prove it to a judge down the line therefore, given that a positive outcome isn't confirmed at this stage I'd still consider the access a necessity.

[ULA]

I would suggest if you have not heard anything by Fri you contact the HR person who said the decision was imminent and establish exactly when that will be, given, the amount of time this has already taken which hardly means that it has been a "fair and reasonable" process as required by the ACAS guidelines for conducting disciplinaries.

I would also remind them that there is an outstanding grievance for which you have requested access to company systems to help support preparing your evidence for any grievance hearing which still remains outstanding. Again this does not comply with a "fair and reasonable" process for conducting a grievance as also set out by ACAS.

[Presonus]

Sorry for not responding, i thought i'd posted a thank you but it somehow saved it as a draft instead.

I have had a chat today, not with my usual HR contact but someone a bit further up. I am still chewing what I've been told over, and it was by phone so I've already lost the exact wording, but it looks like my case has caused a wider investigation, and there is an investigation going on, which relates to me, but I am not the subject of it.

They've re-established the support I was receiving and asked me to do my best to be patient and try and not to fill the gaps or overthink things because this is quite a big matter, and that I can't be given the details because of confidentiality (and the fact I'm not the subject of this other thing whatever it is) but it's important and a decision cannot be made until this sort of secondary/wider or whatever investigation is complete.

I don't know how to interpret it, but it was good to have some contact as the anx has been building this week

[ULA]

Please do not worry sometimes it is a while before someone posts back because they have nothing to report.

It is hard to work out precisely what is going on but there is clearly a bigger investigation going at at the moment, maybe raised because of the circumstance around the way your situation has been handled. However that is purely guesswork on my part.

Whatever is good and on the positive is that your support has been reinstated.

You have said it yourself, it is currently a waiting game and I appreciate how difficult and unsettling that can be. Just stay positive, do things you enjoy, work with your support and take each day one at a time.

Let us know how you get on when you have further news.

[Presonus]

Thanks I'm sort of straddling the fence a bit here I guess.

I've seen enough of how my company handle things to not have confidence, but if they do actually do a full, proper investigation - quite frankly it's almost certainly in my favour because my concerns do have merit (if anyone's interested).

I suppose it's how much faith do you have in the process given whats gone wrong so far :/ I'm tempted, because it's different people now, to give it a chance. But perhaps be prepared to have to defend down the line

[Presonus]

It's time for an update, I know I promised one but due to the sensitivities I thought it would die down a bit before posting anything in public as I know our social media profiles are vetted etc.


A lot has happened.

The outcome of my case was a final warning, the greivance was upheld in part and my managers were described as 'clumsy'. That said, a lot of issues, such as the subject access request etc appear somewhat whitewashed and the social isolation aspect of my complaint was not upheld.

I have been moved to another team which I don't mind, this means on paper I end up in a better role though they have watered down some of my responsibilities because it may 'give the look of appearing like a promotion', however they sold me this on the basis lessons had been learned, and that there would be a formal training programme for my new role unlike me self teaching for the old one, and there's be proper MH support going forward.

One of the conditions is that I undertook a fresh OH assessment which gave the opinion my MH difficulties (which I don't want to go too much into in public) does constitute a disability, which was one of the questions specifically requested by my company.

A lot has changed since I've left, my managers manager (who undertook the investigation despite a conflict of interest) has dissapeared in mysterious circumstances, the person who originally took my disciplinary who was mysteriously dissapeared halfway through the process has also gone, and so have a lot of other people. All in a cloud of secrecy.

Furthermore, I found out, and I shouldn't read too much into this, that when I was suspended they had to bring in several contractors to do the backfill, this doesn't really add to my case except I feel it proves my point that my MH concerns were in part due to being overworked. They literally brought half a department in to replace me by the looks of it.

There has also been an external audit, this has caused considerable fear because when I started my new role, certain people were very coy towards me and actually messaged my colleagues to check I was a genuine employee because they were concerned I was an auditor in disguise. People even high up are jumpy.


I disagree with the warning, and I feel a lot of my concerns were whitewashed with regards to my treatment, but in an attempt to be reasonable, put water under the bridge and all that I accepted the warning, didn't appeal it and just hoped 2024 would be better - I am in a better job after all and they've said once I get up to speed I will get full responsibility which means better pay and all that. So, warning aside it felt like a mutual compromise and we can crack on. So I've entered 2024 very enthusiastic, rearing to go and you know, for the first time in far too long, happy to be at work.


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There is one big issue though. The company made a big deal about how my new role would be quite regulated in that they;d put a training plain in place, there would be support, regular 1-2-1's and all that, and it just isn't materialising. My new boss is a legend - he can spot me hgaving a bad time from a mile away and he does intervene, and for that I'm really greatful but he is managing two teams and so thin on thr ground, so he is delegating a lot of my support to colleagues and it just isn't happening.

I've been in my new role six weeks now, and whilst I was assigned a dedicated mentor, I have actually in total only had 3 hours of shadowing in that time, this is due to either him being too busy, too ill, or just seemingly no reason at all. I have managed to cadge a few hours mentoring under my own initiative by pestering others, but again I've only managed to acheive a few hours.

Also I haven't been added to teams teams chat channels, I asked my boss this and he confirmed there to be no reason not to be but he hasn't himself sorted it (or gone through any onboarding formally) and hes asked me to ask others to add me. Which I've done but I'm still finding out about channels I am not on, and quite frankly I'm feeling from a MH point of view quite isolated.

Furthermore, I'm not on the mailing list where peole invititing the team to meetings and you get the current affairs and work from, my manager was a bit coy about adding me to this saying we'd discuss this at a future date. This is fine but I am being excluded from things by default, and I am having to proactively ask people if meetings exist and manually champion myself to be included, which given my disability feels a tad discriminatory given this is a requirement of my revised job spec.

Furthermore, the training plan that was discussed was delegated to a colleague who to be fair did a grand job of it, it reads really good with a timelined outline of my expected progress, support available etc, problem is nobody's actually read it to progress it. A lot of it requires manager input and it became apparent in a 1-2-1 this hasn't even been reviewed and whilst I love my new manager personally, he's just spread far too thin to manage this and as a result its on permanent backburner.

I've basically grinned and beared it, and tried to control my frustrations but it came to a head on friday when I was left out of a meeting, and realised I'd gone a whole week without speaking to anyone or doing any work, and it triggered my stress so rotten it completely wiped out my weekend.

Realising my MH is declining, I've spoken to my GP, upped my meds and I've sent a note to HR outlining my concerns. I am not sure if I've done the right thing, but I feel totally abandoned, and I know my manager would support if he had the time as when he does have the time he's 100%, but that time just isn't there.



So that's where we are.

[ULA]

Thank you for the comprehensive update.

I was pleased to read that 2024 started off positive but sorry to hear that things have not quite gone to plan.

I would say that as a first stage raising this with HR is the correct approach but suggest you make sure they were aware how positive to you were at the start of the year.

[Presonus]

Hi

Thanks for your response - much appreciated - I spoke to them and they weren't too helpful to be honest, I think they consider the matter pretty much closed, though they did offer to have a chat to my manager when I mentioned they were effectively blocking me from fulfilling my new job spec, and that i was literally being paid quite a sum to sit and twiddle my thumbs.

I also very narrowly missed a social event as I wasn't in on the invite, and I only found out by accident when someone mentioned the plans in a team meeting, so I've raised that as a concern as well - whilst I appreciate a lot of people won't be bothered by this, a lot of my problems with my previous manager have been around exclusion, as is my MH issues so it brings a lot back and is a very provocative trigger to a lot of the problems.

Work day to day is bearable, the new team haven't blown my socks off, in fact its hard to get a word out of anybody but it is what it is, my mentor is off a lot including today so there's again little to do - I am focusing on self development though i took a professional certification exam yesterday (results pending) and im starting one for my new role so hopefully I wont be a 'newbie' too long and will have something to put on my CV. I'm doing this under my own initiative.

I do have a procedural question, I have been notified my outcome is going to be a written warning - however is this the warning itself? I haven't actually heard anything from anybody with regards since getting a summary of outcomes, is that the warning, because it reads like a notification that you'll get a warning? But I haven't actually received anything that looks like a warning if that makes sense.

I received a relatively informally written email stating the grievance & disciplinary outcomes but that was literally it.

[ULA]

Good that you are being proactive about training which is always useful to be able to demonstrate other skills both internally and of course on a CV if you decide to put yourself out in the job market.

Your post #22 says that you were given a final warning, is this the same "written warning" you ae referring to in your last post #24? If they then my view is that you should have been sent a letter soon after the disciplinary meeting confirming what disciplinary action has been taken and how long it will remain in effect (on your file). You should also have been given the right of appeal and the timescale in which this should be received by and to whom it should be addressed or signposted to a procedure that set this out.

If I have misunderstood then please can you clarify.

[Presonus]

Yeah it's a bit unclear, I was sent an email saying I was receiving a written warning, it was effectively a bulletpoint lists stating which aspects of the greivance had been agreed with/declined and at the end said I'd be receiving a written warning (I do beleive it's final)

It did state an appeal window as well, just wondered if that *is* the warning, or whether it's a separate thing - I received an email but there hasn't been any documents, and whilst it states it will stay on my file indefinitely it'll only be valid for 12 months from a disciplinary perspective.

But I can only presume that's from the date of the email.

[ULA]

It does not sound as official as I would advised is prepared after a disciplinary hearing but it sounds as if at least through various forms of correspondence you have confirmation of what the outcome is.

If you want to be certain then you could email back and state that for your own confirmation you understand that you have a final written warning which although it will remain on your file indefinitely is only effective for 12 months from the date of the email and insert that date.