Preliminary Hearing to Ascertain Employer

[Mollypops]

Good Morning, I hope someone can offer me advice as I am representing myself at a preliminary hearing in August. My question is that the bundle has been created and witness statements exchanged. My statement was all about proving who my employer was (worked across a group of companies, one of which went into CVL) as this is what the preliminary is for. Their witness statement goes into more detail eg. my notice period was 3 months, not 6 months etc. If I have written proof, am I allowed to take this to the hearing or do I have to submit it prior? Also they have claimed they offered me an alternative temporary role - this is incorrect and I have someone who is willing to make a statement. Again, can this now be added? I feel they have put items on their statement that are not to do with proving who my employer was and are trying to cast doubt over my claim should I be successful at the preliminary. Thank you for any advice.

[ULA]

What does the details for the preliminary hearing (PHR) set out as being the purpose? Is it purely to ascertain who the employer and therefore what company of the group of companies is the actual respondent in the claim?

Have you been asked to complete a case management agenda for the PHR?

[Mollypops]

Firstly, thank you for responding - it really is appreciated.

The Preliminary is to "Determine the Respondents application" and it also states that "case management orders may be made at the conclusion of the preliminary hearing"

The Respondents Application is that the other 3 companies (there were 4 of which 1 went into CVL) were not my employers.

They state for the others I was only a statutory director. My contract was with the one in CVL and I was also paid by them although my contract states my role and duties were across all the businesses. The other companies were unable to sustain management charges so we worked across the group for the good of the group. This had been the case for my 20 years employment with them - the company grew and we just did the same work for all. It had never been an issue of which "legal entity" you were working for.

Hope this helps - thank you

[ULA]

Thank you for the clarification and as I suspected the respondent's application is trying to claim that your employer in respect of making the claim is the company in CVL and they will more than likely be producing copies of payslips that show you were paid by this particular company. A positive is your contract states, from your recent post, that you work across all 4 companies and you can therefore demonstrate custom and practice.

This hearing is for the respondent to prove their position, however you need to have the evidence available to prove that your duties and responsibilities lay across all companies.

[Mollypops]

Good Morning, that is what I have based my witness statement on - all evidence of work across all companies. My concern was that their witness statement brings other things in like my notice period and saying they offered me employment until the Liquidators had finished. This is nothing to do with proving who I did or didn't work for. Am I allowed to take evidence to the preliminary that this is incorrect as obviously it wasn't included in my statement or bundle as it wasn't relevant to the preliminary hearing? I'm on a bit of a steep learning curve :-)

[ULA]

As I doubt anything has been ordered regarding a bundle for the PHR as it is to deal with the respondent's application, I would suggest go prepared with any evidence you have on the issues which appear to be "out of scope" for the PHR but the respondent has covered in their witness statement that refute what they have said.

If the judge does give them the benefit of bringing these issues into the hearing then at least you have evidence you can give to the Judge if allowed and if necessary.

I appreciate being a litigant in person at Employment Tribunal hearings can be very daunting so just use this thread to ask any questions you have as you go through this process and we will try to assist as much as we can.

[Mollypops]

Good Morning,

My Preliminary Hearing is next week. The Respondent(s) have now submitted (yesterday) a "Skeleton Argument" and "Authorities Bundle". The combined bundle and witness statements have already been submitted.

Will it go against me that I have not put anything forward? I can see why they have put it forward with regards to not being able to have more than one employer but none that they have submitted are for a case working within a close group entity.

Their main argument is that everything I did for the other companies was either as a Statutory Director or De Jure Director.

I have my evidence of the work I did, who I reported to etc. and also evidence that proves inaccuracies in their witness statement.

Am I over thinking this?

Many Thanks

[ULA]

Have you submitted a witness statement which sets out the evidence that you have in respect of proving your employer?

[Mollypops]

Thank you for answering Ula, it really is appreciated. Yes, I have had to do bundle and witness statement. When we exchanged statements, as previously said they included items not relevant to who employer was but I have documentation to prove them wrong but this wasnt included initially as it wasn't what the PRH was about. I have composed all my questions (referring to their witness statement) for their witness which again proves my cross group employment rather than just "statutory duties" (it seems they are saying everything I did came under "statutory duties"). I have a "McKenzie Friend" coming with me which is a help but the thought of facing a barrister is daunting.

Thanks again!

[ULA]

Good to hear you have someone to support you at the hearing. Preparation is important and if you have reviewed all the witness statements and have your questions ready and now gone through the additional "Skeleton Argument" and "Authorities Bundle" then you have gone a long way to being ready. If you have documents that have not made it into the bundle but you think will help your case then taken them with you.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[Mollypops]

Hi Ula,

Well, its all done - not a very nice experience and the relief is unbelievable when representing yourself. The Judge has said she will make a decision and we will be informed in writing, she was not going to make a decision there and then. From what I felt, the decision will go with the Respondents. It seems law is law and if you have a contract of employment with 1 entity it doesn't matter who else you work for and in what capacity and for how long. The witness for the Respondents even said to me on the way out "all this doesn't negate 20 years loyal service though". I didn't reply. I will let you know the official outcome when I get it. The judge said it could take up to 4 weeks.

On another note, I do feel better as I have had my say - lesson learnt though about doing work for other entities in a family owned group of businesses :-)

[ULA]

Hi Mollypops well done on getting through the hearing, that is itself is a great achievement as it is daunting position to be in.

I have been hearing that if a decision is not made then that is the approx timescale at the moment for the written decision to be provide, so unfortunately a waiting game but I am glad that in a way the process has made you feel better.

Will look forward to you letting us know the outcome.