Negotiation and settlement

[ULA]

Thank you for coming back with an update.

As you start preparing for the hearing, if you need any further help then please just come back to this thread rather than start a new thread as the previous posts are helpful information.

[GoldenRaven]

Hi,

Can you please help me figure out what else we need to do or get to prove disability of anxiety and depression?

Mum is still under the GP's care and has not been referred to a specialist or consultant. GP has referred her to talking therapy/counselling and we have these records.

I've read that sometimes the court or the Respondent request an assessment by a relevant medical professional. Can we get one done privately before the hearing so the evidence is ready and her case is fully supported?

Who is the best medical expert who will be relevant and credible in the eyes of the tribunal for anxiety and depression disability?

Do you know the approximate costs?

BACKGROUND:

The Respondent have said they do not accept that my mother is disabled at all and if she is she was not disabled at the relevant times.

We have sent the following evidence of my mother's disability along with a disability statement detailing how her daily life is affected, how she was prior to the issues with the Respondent and how she was at the time of and the time following these issues.

The medical issues started 6 months before my mum went on sick leave, sick leave has been over 15 months. Mum is still receiving the same treatments, and is waiting for an OH appointment to assess returning to work.

ALL evidence attests to my mum's mental health and how this was progressively getting worse. They all mention that it seems to be because of the issues with her employer and that these need to be resolved before she can start recovering.

The period covered in what we sent is from 6 months before mum went on long-term sick leave up to the day we submitted the documents and the disability statement to the Respondent, covering approximately 20 months.

Evidence sent.
1. From GP: Medical records with GP notes from a dozen or so consultations, the GP prescriptions and the GP-issued sick notes.
2. From talking therapies/counselling: reports and questionnaire assessment and scoring of my mum's mental health for depression (PHQ) and anxiety (GAD) for all sessions (approx 30 sessions) since my mum went on sick leave (approx 12 months).
3. 2 x OH reports giving an assessment that my mum's mental condition and that it 'may' be covered under the Equality Act. And saying the issues with her employers need to be resolved before she can 'sustain a return to work'. And it also includes recommendations to help her return to work, the main ones being resolving the issues, reduced hours and reduced workloads.

Thank you so much for your help. It is helping us navigate a very complicated and stressful situation.

[ULA]

Yes the Respondent can ask for the claimant to get an independent medical report or I have known situations where the claimant themselves has organised this to present as part of the medical evidence in the bundle.

I have no recommendations for a medical expert anxiety and depression disability. If you are going to consider getting an expert report then in the first instance I would suggest speaking to your mother's GP they may be able to advise. Alternatively I have come across the organisation linked to below, although I have not used them and I am not giving you their details as a recommendation. They may also be able to advise on cost.

If you did want to get a medical report from an expert I would ensure that it is done in time to add into the bundle i.e. before the deadline for bundle completion. It also means if applicable reference can be made to relevant parts in your mother's witness statement.

https://www.mewa.org.uk/

[GoldenRaven]

Yes the Respondent can ask for the claimant to get an independent medical report or I have known situations where the claimant themselves has organised this to present as part of the medical evidence in the bundle.

I have no recommendations for a medical expert anxiety and depression disability. If you are going to consider getting an expert report then in the first instance I would suggest speaking to your mother's GP they may be able to advise. Alternatively I have come across the organisation linked to below, although I have not used them and I am not giving you their details as a recommendation. They may also be able to advise on cost.

If you did want to get a medical report from an expert I would ensure that it is done in time to add into the bundle i.e. before the deadline for bundle completion. It also means if applicable reference can be made to relevant parts in your mother's witness statement.

https://www.mewa.org.uk/

Thank you so much for this information!! This has been keeping me up at night. Off the top of my head we don't have long to agree the bundle, I believe this is due in mid January.

Is there a way to add the medical expert evidence after the bundle has been agreed?

I think because so much of the case depends on proving disability, especially as this has really affected Mum's life, a medical expert opinion is of vital importance.

[GoldenRaven]

Yes the Respondent can ask for the claimant to get an independent medical report or I have known situations where the claimant themselves has organised this to present as part of the medical evidence in the bundle.

I have no recommendations for a medical expert anxiety and depression disability. If you are going to consider getting an expert report then in the first instance I would suggest speaking to your mother's GP they may be able to advise. Alternatively I have come across the organisation linked to below, although I have not used them and I am not giving you their details as a recommendation. They may also be able to advise on cost.

If you did want to get a medical report from an expert I would ensure that it is done in time to add into the bundle i.e. before the deadline for bundle completion. It also means if applicable reference can be made to relevant parts in your mother's witness statement.

https://www.mewa.org.uk/

I forgot to say, this link is really useful as they deal with both solicitors and private people. Other medical expert witness services I have contacted have come back saying I can only access their services via a solicitor.

[ULA]

Even if the bundle is to be agreed by mid Jan from one of your posts it seems the hearing is at the end of 2024. Disclosure is an ongoing process and you could argue that a medical report after agreement of the bundle falls under this. However I would suggest it is not left too long to organise. This is relevant as your mother may want to refer to parts of it in her witness statement and there will be a date for exchange of witness statements she will need to adhere to.

Glad the link was useful and I was well aware they dealt with solicitors and individuals which was the reason for providing their details.

[GoldenRaven]

Even if the bundle is to be agreed by mid Jan from one of your posts it seems the hearing is at the end of 2024. Disclosure is an ongoing process and you could argue that a medical report after agreement of the bundle falls under this. However I would suggest it is not left too long to organise. This is relevant as your mother may want to refer to parts of it in her witness statement and there will be a date for exchange of witness statements she will need to adhere to.

Glad the link was useful and I was well aware they dealt with solicitors and individuals which was the reason for providing their details.

Thank you ULA. You are a star!

I had contacted some medical expert witness places but no joy. I contacted the one you linked to and waiting for a quote and timeline. We are trying the GP route as well, but can't get an appointment at the moment. And I am not sure they will refer Mum to a psychologist to help her tribunal case. However, the argument that without a formal diagnosis she is not getting the help and the protection she should. Beside, the condition has gone on for quite a while, it is not getting better and has even gotten worse. Fingers crosses.

Thank you again.

[GoldenRaven]

Hi, I am just updating the post to help others. MEWA has returned 1 quote for a psychiatrist assessment just under £1400. I did submit a summary of the case and some OH reports for them to give me a quote. This includes going through 100 pages of medical evidence. So each case will likely be priced differently.

The price point is twice what I was expecting, we are not sure if we can make this happen and if so it will likely be after the bundle is agreed but we can definitely pay for it before the hearing.

We are still trying to reach the GP to get a formal diagnosis. Fingers crossed.

Forgot to add, I am looking at private hospitals and individual psychologists with witness experience as alternate, hopefully more cost effective options.

[ULA]

Thanks for the update. Unfortunately the route of a private medical expert report is not inexpensive. Hopefully via the GP may be a less costly route if they can direct you to the correct specialist. You do have a bit of time to sort this out.

[GoldenRaven]

Hi,

In order to establish the case that my Mum's employer caused her disability by their discriminating actions and unlawful deductions, I understand that we need to have a clear causation link to establish that my Mum's anxiety and depression were caused by the actions of her employer and her colleagues. I have come up with these questions for the medical expert to answer with their consultation and report. Please let me know what I am missing or how we can improve this. We can only pay for this assessment once and welcome any help.

1. Does the Claimant suffer from anxiety and depression?
2. Is the Claimant disabled under the definition of the Equality Act 2010?
3. Was the Claimant disabled at the relevant times?
4. Did the Respondent directly contribute to the claimant’s health issues? If so how?
5. The psychological impact assessment/evaluation that details the extent of emotional or mental harm suffered due to the alleged workplace issues.
6. What are the short-term and the long-term prognosis and any future medical or therapeutic needs related to the condition?
7. How will the Claimant's employment or employability be affected in the short-term and the long-term?

P.S:
1. Also we are leaning towards a psychology expert, but should it be a psychiatrist? The expert witness service has provided quotes for both psychology and psychiatry.
2. Can we just get an assessment and report from the medical expert or do we need to hire them to be a witness at the hearing?

[ULA]

You need to remember that this is a medical expert and you are asking for their medical opinion on your mother's condition and they are not going to be able to answer certain points you have raised. They will have no knowledge (other than what your mother tells them) of any intent by the respondent.

I therefore suggest the following which include some of your questions but also suggests alternative phrasing and some different questions which you can decide to use or not.

1. What is the nature and extent of the mental health issues the individual is suffering from?
2. Is the Claimant disabled under the definition of the Equality Act 2010. If so, what substantial adverse and long-term effects does the condition/s have upon the individual's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities and what particular normal day-to-day activities are affected?
3. When did this condition first arise?
4. Did the individual suffer these conditions over the periods of [set out the relevant dates]. Would these periods be covered under the Equality Act 2010?
5. Were the actions of the individual's employer directly contributory to the health issues of the individual and if so to what extent has this impacted on the individual's health?
6. What is the short and long-term prognosis for the individual? What if any medical treatments or therapeutic needs will be required to assist the individual recover or manage their health condition/s?
7. How will the individual's employment or employability in the future be affected in terms of ability to return to work and what if any adjustments will be required.

In answer to your questions:

1. Your original question 6 and my suggested question 5 asks about medical treatment which specifically related to the prescribing of medications which only a psychiatrist can do. So, therein potentially answers this question as a psychologist can only deal in therapies and if they believed mediation was required they would have to refer your mother back to a psychiatrist.
2. For the time being get the medical assessment. I cannot rule out the requirement for them to be a witness but it may only be needed at any remedy stage and not even then if the medical report is through enough and the expert has strong credentials.

Have you found someone to carry out the report for your mother?

[GoldenRaven]

Thank you ULA, yes we have got quotes from 2 services, MEWA as you suggested and Psychology experts. They are priced around the same sort of prices. £1800 including tax.

I will now get back in touch with the services with the definite brief including your questions (thank you so much for this!). Mum has been treated both with medication from her GP and therapy from NHS services. When I did research between psychiatrists and psychologists, I found out that only psychiatrists hold a medical degree and can prescribe medication I thought because psychologists do talk therapy they may be better able to identify the cause of Mum's mental state.

I will discuss this with everyone and highlight your information.

Can I ask in your experience (I do understand it is personal experience/opinion) in cases of mental illness allegedly caused by discrimination and unlawful deduction in employment, is a psychiatrist or psychologist most used? Which one carries more weight in the eyes of the judging panel?

Thank you again for your most valuable insights. I cannot say it enough, your help is making this easier.

[ULA]

Both are recognised professions, so it will depend upon the credentials of the practitioner and the level of detail, professionalism and insight their report provides.

MEWA can provide both areas so they may be able to assist with which one would be best for your mother to see once they are aware of what the report it for, whereas the other company are only going to have psychologists.

[GoldenRaven]

Thanks ULA we'll do that.

We will miss the deadline to include the details from the medical expert report in the witness statement, I have a few questions to help us understand the situation:

1. You said earlier that discovery is ongoing so this can be added to the document bundle for the hearing, correct?
2. Is it possible to push back the deadline for the witness statement?
3. It is possible to apply to the court to amend the witness statement based on the medical expert's report?
4. What if the medical expert's report does not support the case much or at all, do we need to share it with the respondent?

[ULA]

Before I answer your questions 1-3 can you confirm:

1, Date of witness statement exchange?
2. Date of final hearing?

Answer to your Q4 you have a duty to disclose all information related to the claim whether it support sor otherwise the claim so yes you would need to share the report with the respondent whatever it states.