Appealing a dismissal

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , many thanks for all your help, I think you have been my savior , I think I have everything I need , and now preparing for the Tribunal, and going through the bundle over and over again, mind you the only thing I have not got is the respondents witness statement, I emailed his solicitors last week to say mine is ready, and asked them for a date when we can swap both of our witness statements, but I've heard nothing back. Just out of curiosity I know I can and will refer to many documents in the bundle during the tribunal, but with regards to both final witness statements, his and mine which neither of us have seen yet , is it normal for us to cross each other's witness statements and what's wrote in them ,thank a lot David

[ULA]

Can I suggest that you chase up the respondent’s solicitor re the exchange of witness statements. In the meantime, check any Case Management Orders to see whether it is just a case of both parties lodging their witness statements when they attend the hearing.

Yes, it is normal as part of cross-examination for each party to be able to refer to points made in the other party's witness statement/s.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , I really do not know what the respondent is up to nor his solicitors. I sent of a reply word for word following the template you sent me , for some strange reason they wanted me to clarify if I'm claiming unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal, yet they have been quite aware for sometime now that my claim is for unfair dismissal. As you mentioned in your template as to what I should write , and why, and clearly stating I never resigned, they have contacted me once again asking for an extension to swap witness statements. The case management order states we should have done this on the 31st May. This request by them for permission to extend the date for swapping witness statements until the 7th July has also been sent to the tribunal office. Their reasons for this are so they can amend the respondents witness statement, and then add it to the final bundle. Just for your information I emailed them last week stating my witness statement was ready and I would like a date from them to exchange. However and once again, they seem to need more time. I have just come of the phone to the respondents solicitor and said I will contact them on the 7th July to arrange for the swapping of the final statements.For some strange reason I think my response, IE your template seems to have ruffled a few feathers at the last minute, although I could be wrong, but they seem to asking for extensions for everything at every opportunity, which I think might be a good sign, would once again love to hear your thoughts, and again thank you so much for all your support, david

[ULA]

So the current issue for the respondent is that a slippage of 2 weeks on for example exchange of witness statement does not need an application to the Tribunal, so given the exchange was due 31 May then that would be 14June. Having not exchanged yet this needs to be taken to the Tribunal as an application to extend, although arguably this should have been done at the 14 day point when they were clearly not able to exchange.

I would suggest you contact them by email (not phone) on 6 June and say that unless they are in a position to exchange you will be making an Unless Order application to the Tribunal.

I would not want to read too much into things, sometime trying to read into the situation or actions of the other party can lead to drawing the wrong conclusions. Between now and when you get the witness statement make sure you have made good use of the highlighters and post it notes in respect of the rest of the bundle and your preparation on that for the hearing. That means when you have exchanged witness statements you have the final few days before the hearing to review and makes all your preparation notes on this document.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula, above is what they have asked for with regards to an extension to the 7th July, they are referring to my response using your template, as to whether my claim is for unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal, as you have advised I will email them on the 7th July, and ask them when they are ready to swap the final witness statements, I will let you know how I get on with regards to this on the 7th July, many thanks for your help, David

[ULA]

Its a shame they do not know how to address the Tribunal correctly in the correspondence but then I am a stickler for that type of thing.

You do have the option to make a response to the Tribunal if you want but given the lateness of everything I am not sure what purpose it will serve.

Sorry my post #64 should have said to email them on the 6 July (not 6 June as I stated) i.e. the day before as a nudge as to what time on 7th they will be ready to exchange.

[MrSharples]

Thanks Ula , I don't know if this tribunal is even going to go ahead or not , either way, whether I'm successful or not, I actually think I would have given up a long time ago if it were not for your help, you have been a godsend since the day I first posted my query on this forum many months ago, I will keep you updated on how things go, I feel you have played a major role in my defense and preparation for something that is nearly here.Thankyou again for all you have done for me , David

[ULA]

Pleasure to have helped.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula, to say I'm confused would be an understatement, please see the respondents solicitors reply to what I sent them ,using your words , not sure how or why they are still saying I resigned, and their reasons, they no 100% I did not resign, and have consistently denied ever resigning, so can't make head nor tail of this comment, don't know what you think, many thanks david

[ULA]

To be honest I am equally confused but it is clear they are going to argue their case on the basis you resigned.

You have a letter dated 23 December 2022 dismissing you and you have never provided a signed letter resigning nor have you verbally resigned. You have the letter (which should be in the bundle) saying you are dismissed, there is no resignation letter from you that the respondent can disclose. Therefore the claim is unfair dismissal not constructive unfair dismissal.

However the last sentence on the message basically tell you what is potentially going to be in their WS (witness statement). Just make sure your WS between now and exchange, chronologically covers this point i.e

* On xxx date and [if you know roughly what time state that] my line manager asked me to resign on the spot if I was not happy, I refused to resign and was then asked to leave.[state whether you did this and again approx time].
* On 23 December 2022 I received a letter from my employer dismissing me. This letter is at page xxx of the bundle.

There is not much else I can advise.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , once again many thanks for your help, well as time is drawing near to my tribunal and I'm busy with preparing my defense etc , could I please just ask you something about how I go about asking questions, cross examination etc , when I cross examine the respondent for instance, can I refer to his witness statements from 3 other people who have made them , or do I have to wait for his witnesses to take the stand, before I relate to what they have said , also how much do I have to rely on my own witness statement, and what is in it. For example the respondent has stated in his own witness statement , things I deny on my witness statement, so when addressing what he has wrote, would it be normal for me to refer to both statements, I hope this makes sense , many thanks david

[ULA]

I have another document that may help you which I have uploaded.

Cross examination takes place when each witness takes the stand.

You will of course need to rely on your witness statement and it is in your questioning of the respondent and the facts of their statement that you need to try and point out the factual inaccuracies between their version of events versus your version.

I am now going to be offline for most of the next couple of days. Good luck with your preparations.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula ,its my tribunal Tomorrow morning, I have just received a very strange email from the respondents solicitor, at 7.30 tonight, saying hi mr Sharpe these are 5 cases I will be referring to tomorrow, she has sent these 5 different cases all of which are at least 20 pages long per case. They are all cases I'm assuming she has won in the past. I honestly do not know what relevance they have, or what she has even sent me them for especially so late at night, also why she needs to relate to cases which have nothing to do with mine , other than that they are of a similar nature, IE unfair dismissal cases , I do not see her point whatsoever other than some kind of scare tactic, but the whole thing seems very unprofessional, or is this normal, especially the very night before the tribunal, many thanks in advance for your help, David

[ULA]

Behaviour of some law firms never ceases to amaze me.

All I can say at this time in the morning is good luck for the hearing and please let us know how you get on.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , sorry about the late reply I've been really busy, ok tribunal lasted from 09.45 until nearly 5.30 take away 45 min lunch break, I really don't know where to start because there is so much to tell but I will try to be brief. The first thing I would like to say is a massive thank you for all your help , not just what you have advised me about, but the template you sent me with regards to claiming unfair dismissal and not constructive dismissal played a big part of today's hearing, and put to bed once and for all , what the respondents solicitor was trying to imply, the respondent had 2 solicitors and 4 witnesses including himself, as I was on my own the whole experience was extremely daunting, there main argument was that I tried to claim constructive dismissal at first, and then changed my mind for some strange reason to unfair dismissal and said I done this to stand a better chance of winning, which is absolutely rubbish, that's where you're template convinced the judge otherwise, there solicitors cross examining of me was embarrassing at times , I'm almost sure that there solicitors could not see the judge because on many occasions she was rolling her eyes, as if to say what you're trying to imply is ridiculous and not making any sense. Is it possible that whilst I could see the judge, she couldn't, because the judge definitely done this several times, which I found very odd , but well in my favour.The end result is that the judge said it could take upto a month for her to provide us with the result ,and did mention that the costs awarded to me might be reduced and mentioned the polkey case , which I still fully do not understand, bit suprising also on the amount of time its going to take for the result, however in my opinion is that I have won, albeit I cannot say for certain, but you will be the first person to know believe me. Sorry about the length of my reply, and once again thank you so much, I don't think I could have done this without you, cheers david