Another training cost thread

[TedSkillz]

Sorry to start another but from what I can see none of the other ones match my issue closely enough.

In October 2021 I did a management development course as part of my career progression. The course was on the back of a job that was promised next time it became available. Naively I accepted, went away and did my 2 week course successfully. Ultimately the job I was promised I was not given.

So now I fond myself leaving a company I've been with for 5 years. That i wanted to have a career with but its been a horrid 9 months with them and it feels right to just move on.

Anyway upon handing in my notice and then 5 days later before being put on garden leave my manager presents me with a £3500 deduction from my end wages to cover the cost of the course. He includes the accommodation etc within this.

Times are hard so I simply cant accept a deduction of the sort or at all really.

We do not have a training agreement, the only time training costs get mentioned are in our contract, from 2017 which states.

"The company reserves the right at any time during, or in any event on termination of employment to deduct from salary any overpayment made and / or monies owed to the company by you including but not limited to any outstanding loans, advances, holidays taken in excess of entitlement, payments made in error, abuse of the sick pay scheme, inadequate notice of termination of employment, training costs and the cost of repairing any damage or loss to the company's property caused by you. Further details can be found in the employee handbook"

I can't actually get access to the employee handbook but the employee handbook hasn't been signed. With this can they legally attempt to take this?

Thanks In advance for your help.

[dslippy]

Deductions from wages requires good evidence of your consent, but your employment includes deduction of training costs. How do you counter that?

[TedSkillz]

That's kind of the reason I'm asking.

I guess my understanding is as follows.

Companies should have something of an agreement in place rather than just one line in a contract.

Deduction could be interpreted as a penalty for leaving the business?

Also the fact there is no mention of time or sliding scale related to time. i could say that in my 9 months the company benefitted from my course knowledge?

The fact we are never told how much the course is in advance or made to sign anything related to that specific course.

[dslippy]

One line in a contract - if they have your signature - may be all the greement that is needed.

[ULA]

There are several ways that give s company the tright to make deductions from wages on termination to cover training costs:

1. A training policy that has a clause about repayment of training costs which details what that would cover.

2. A training agreement for a specific training course, made directly with the employee, that covers repayment of costs.

3. Like you have set out, a clause in a contract of employment that details the right on termination to deduct salary to cover various events which are then listed.

What you can maybe argue is that:

1. The cost of the course was never detailed before agreeing to undertake it and a reminder that under your contract of employment there would be a deduction from salary to cover the cost.

2. A sliding scales of repayment, based on the time benefit the company has had from you having obtained the skills from the training. A typical sliding scale works over two years

[TedSkillz]

Hi ULA

Thanks for the response. Without the presence of a training policy and the fact that costs were not disclosed ahead of the course would you say I have grounds to dispute this?

[ULA]

The company has a right under the clause in your contract to make the deduction. The suggestions I have given are points that you can raise to try to reduce the amount to repay.

[atticus]

The clause quoted permits deduction in respect of "any overpayment made and / or monies owed to the company by you". It then goes on to list examples of such overpayments or debts.

But I don't think that we have seen the basis on which the sum in question is said to be a debt owed to the company. That needs to be investigated.

[TedSkillz]

So this has now progressed. Annoyingly 5 years ago I did indeed sign a training agreement, that was a real long time ago. Anyway, that aside.

The company have broken down the costs

course fee £3314.31
accommodation £1334.40
travel £218.20
basic salary for duration £472.05

However, ive since logged into the training prospectus and there is 0 cost attached to the course. In fact. The company just pays a yearly fee to the training company and it doesn't matter how many people attend there is no financial difference to the company.

Just to make that clear. When booking the course it phtsically says £0

am I right to be digging my heels in here?

[dslippy]

That seems to be a representation that the cost is 0 and that herefore no debt is payable - but does that just refer to the course fee.

[atticus]

And I question the salary element. Does your training cost agreement cover that?

[TedSkillz]

Yes point 3 in it reads.

3. If I choose to leave xxxxx's employment within the 2 year period as stated at point 1 above, I agree for any monies owed to the company to be deducted from my final pay or from any source available to the company.

I guess it's all in fitting with the agreement but I don't actually owe them any money. There is no debt as such?

[atticus]

That was my precise point in post 8.

Taking it further - you need to analyse what, if anything, is owed to the company. The company's claim breaks down as follows:

• course fees - questionable
• travel and accommodation - ?
• salary while on the course - is that covered in the training cot agreement?

A further thought - do you have legal expenses insurance? A firm letter from a lawyer might help get the company to rein in its demands.

[TedSkillz]

I think I've uploaded the agreement, I've just doctored the company name out.

[TedSkillz]

In answer to your question no I don't have legal expenses insurance, or not that I know of.