Unfair dismissal - addiction/mental health issues involved

[harry501]

Hi, I have my appeal hearing for an UD on Monday. The appointment was only sent out yesterday at 5pm, so haven't much time to seek advice. I was dismissed for unprofessional conduct. I'm a bar manager (13 years service same role) at a large students union, had two of 55 student staff take a disliking to me for very personal reasons and used it to manipulate historic Whatsapp posts - none of which inappropriate - to suggest sarcastic jokes (all harmless and all part of reciprocal banter at the time) weren't professional and a manager shouldn't make them. At the hearing I was told I hadn't shown enough concern that jokes to staff weren't the appropriate behaviour of a mgr-employee relationship and over familiarity with staff a problem. Pretty unfair, as of the four mgrs, i am the least inclicned for having a relationship with staff... in fact, for this very reason, the two staff seem to be holding me to a different standard as the others are their drink buddies. Their joking and conduct is terrible.

I had no inkling the outcome would be dismissal, pretty shocked tbf. For that reason, I did hold back on telling them I have suffered all of my life with opiate addiction and mental health issues (psychosis, anxiety, mood). Without going into the entire back story, I relapsed due to intense pressure placed on me by my line manager which was not balanced throughout the mgt team. I basically did large parts of his job and the anxiety forced me into relapse. My employee knew about my long term mental health issues (psychosis inc over ten years), as did the university occupational therapist in the past. I know the relapse has a huge baring on my dismissal.

Another main reason i struggled in the investigation and hearing was due to not being allowed to speak to ANY staff during it. None of the staff I put forward as witnesses were spoken to either.

In my appeal statement I was very thorough in how my addiction and mental health problems have had a crucial baring on the investigation and informed them why I held back from telling them this beforehand. This was done because there is a culture of gossip at the organisation and telling ANYONE such personal info is very sensitive obviously and private. One previous staff member had her alcohol addiction made known (from the CEO no less... who is conducting the appeal hearing).

I'm wondering how much now I should elaborate on the two staff members conduct... especially as it's pretty calculated? Problem there I haven't been able to get staff involved to help support me... which if i did would have been very helpful building a case. Or should I just stand by my appeal statement and stick to the addiction & mental health issues (none of which i am lying about, have exaggerated on either).

Any help is much appreciated.

[ULA]

Sorry not to respond before your appeal hearing today.

What was the outcome?

[harry501]

Sorry not to respond before your appeal hearing today.

What was the outcome?

Hi there, I went for my appeal and I was asked to go into a private meeting where I was offered a sum of money as an alternative to the appeals hearing. This meeting I was told and the offer could not be brought up in any future employment tribunals and has a deadline of tomorrow afternoon. The alternative is the appeal goes ahead. It would seem they want the matter over with. The offer is pathetic tho, £7500. I've nearly 14 years service. It seems this is the basic offer of compensation a ET would pay out? May be wrong.

I have the opportunity to counter they said, but no idea what to do or even how much I would ask for?

I reckon bringing up my mental health and addiction and how it has played a role in my dismissal and the implications it had on the allegations as well as other fresh details I brought up in my appeal letter, may have spooked them? It's clear they'd rather I went and the matter ended (especially as 6 weeks have gone by and further investigation might be required), but now that i've mentioned addiction and MH playing a role... I'm not sure if I have a case for greater compensation at an ET? It would seem weird they offer a settlement, and a good reference (with dismissal taken off) if they didn't think i had a chance of overturning the dismissal?

[ULA]

Ok so what they are trying to offer you is what is known as a Settlement Agreement (SA) which is a document that sets out the terms of what the company is going to pay you as “compensation” for you giving up any rights you have to make a subsequent claim against your employer.

If so, then part of the process of signing an SA is that you will be required to take independent legal advice from an employment law specialist. Their job is to ensure that the "compensation" being offered is at the correct level given the circumstances and the rights that you are giving up to bring any further claims. If they go not feel you are being offered enough "compensation" then they would have to negotiate with your employer to increase the sum being offered.

Most employment advisers have a standard payment for providing this advice which is between £350 and £500 which is generally the rate that the employer offers to pay. This is usually enough to cover the costs of the SA if is is straight forward and there is not much back and forth negotiating terms on your behalf.

In your case if your employer is asking for you to sign a Settlement Agreement, I would suggest engaging an employment law advisor and explain the situation, they should also ask for a copy of your contract of employment. They can then best advise as to what you should reasonable expect to receive and negotiate accordingly.

The things to say about an SA and some things that you may want to consider about going this route rather than saying no I'll see you at an Employment Tribunal are:

1. You have an employment adviser to review the SA and ensure your "compensation" is fair and reasonable given the circumstances.
2. You have certaintly of the amount you will recieve and normally this is within 28 days of the agreement being signed.
3. If you did start an Employment Tribunal claim, given the backlog in the system is is unlikely your claim would be heard until 2023, if it is not settled during the process.
4. Unless you could afford a solicitor (no legal aid) you would be what is called a litigant in person, you would be in a legal process no doubt against a Respondent who will enploy solicitors.
5. Consider whether you really want to start a lenghtly, stressful Employment Tribunal claim which given your mental health and addicition you may need to conisder whether you want to put yourself under that level of strain.
6. You may not win your claim and you would not get anything!

Hope that has been some helpful information for you.

[harry501]

Thank you so much btw for the advice. I spoke to citizens advice and ACAS which helped me decide on a counter, just need to wait and see.

Can I ask something else, they seemed to have followed the correct procedures regarding the disciplinary process steps, but when they sent me the minutes from the first fact finding meeting to sign off on, I told them they were filled with inaccuracies and emailed what I should do, but got no reply and then it went to the disciplinary hearing. Basically the note taker didn't have English as her first language and she struggled during the fact finding meeting to keep up, she literally asked me to pause every five minutes as she was going behind, most of the time she stopped me mid sentence and it was very off putting. I did report this after when I asked about his I should proceed with the minutes. Her notes reflected this, they were really poor. Like mixing up people, broken English that made no sense, didn't follow my evidence properly.

Also, at the disciplinary hearing which was held over video call they also went to a break midway thru and although they cut the video feed they left the audio on by accident and I heard them discuss changing the type of questioning. I didn't mention this when the minutes were sent as it was technically during a break, but not sure if I should have? It did make me pretty paranoid at the time hearing them discuss things.

[ULA]

On the minutes of the meeting when you emailed them about the inaccuracies did you detail what those are? Depending on your answer teo possible options:

1. If you did detail the inaccuracies and they have not responded, in which case I suggest you re-forward the same email chasing up a response and that you expect to receive a revised version of the minutes, accurately reflecting the meeting based on your comments.
2. You did not send the details, so set those out and request that they provide a revised version of the minutes that accurately reflect the meeting based on your comments.

The latter is difficult as we have seen many instances over the last 2 years of people failing to remember how to use technology. To be honest if a break is taken (as sometimes happen during such a meeting) then it gives either side an opportunity to re-evaluate how they are managing their respective sides of the meeting. Through their own error, you got an insight into the fact that they were going to change how they were going to manage the rest of the meeting. I am not sure that it is much more than that.

[harry501]

Thanks. In regards to the minutes of the fact finding meeting, I sent an email to the external HR consultancy that were carrying out the investigation saying they were not accurate and asked what to do. I got no reply and the investigation went forward. I logged the fact that they were inaccurate with my internal HR and they said they would log the matter and get back to me. They didn't either. So I never signed off on them and the process went forward with just their signature.

I greatly appreciate your help btw.

Can I also ask, I see this forum offer free advice for a donation. Is there a general amount people tend to give. I'm aware I'm not buying the services of a solicitor.

I've sent a counter offer based on what I might get at as potential tribunal compensation and awaiting feedback. I'm keeping it amicable right now. If they offer something poor again I may have to be a bit more aggressive tho. So I'm hoping to find out if this move is wise. A tribunal could be very embarrassing for them given the information that I could bring up. I can also make numerous genuine grievances that are related to my case and other. This could spark further investigations, witnesses brought in and be as pest for them. The place is in need of fixing tbh, it is run very poorly.

[harry501]

I'm not sure if offering to not take further grievances or lodge complaints against the investigation or its employees are something that can be offered by me as a clause in these negotiations... Without sounding threatening? I also don't know whether I play my hand? I know the consultant is meant to remain impartial even tho acting on behalf of my employer

[ULA]

I take it from what you have said that nothing has been presented in writing in the form of a draft SA? In agreeing to an SA there is always going to be some trade-off and compromise which is why you need to be given the opportunity of getting independent legal advise who can access whether what is being offered given the circumstances is fair and reasonable.

If you agreed to go down the route of an SA then that would mean all internal processes would cease from both sides.