Training funding

[Matt-edwards]

Hi I posted this in the welcome forum but thought it would be better suited here.

So a bit of back history in may 2013 my employer sent me for hgv training which i had to sign a contract saying if i left before 2 years i would have to pay the funding back reducing on a sliding scale.

Unfortunately I failed the test and ot never got continued.

Fast forward to October 2020 and i get told I'm going for the training again. This time no mention of any contract or terms, I passed first time in April 2021, Things have now gone south with my current employer and I am looking for employment else where.

I have tried contacting human resources regarding paying the funding back with an offer of paying it in installments, one person I spoke to seemed to think I owed nothing as I hadn't signed anything. While someone else seems to think they will take it out my last pay.

Obviously losing a thousand plus on my last pay would cause me a few issues being a parent. I haven't got any issues paying it back if I need to but was seeking advice on whether
A: they have any recourse as I haven't signed any new contract
B: can they just keep my whole final pay? Or would they have to accept an agreement to pay it back?

Thank you for taking the time to read such a long post, and thank you for any and all advice given.

[echat11]

Hi MATT-EDWARDS

Have you checked you employee handbook? That normally covers things like 'Training Funding' costs, repayments etc.

ULA Can you please take a look and advise.

[Matt-edwards]

Hi thank you for the reply, there is nothing in the handbook regarding training.

But having spoken to my line manager today they are saying the contract from 8 years ago is still valid for the recent training.

[echat11]

Hi thank you for the reply, there is nothing in the handbook regarding training.

But having spoken to my line manager today they are saying the contract from 8 years ago is still valid for the recent training.

Depending on what ULA advise's, you could send the company a SAR to get a copy of the contract, to see what exactly is stated in it.

[ULA]

Hi Matt-edwards just a couple of questions before I provide a response:

1. The contract that you signed back in 2013 was this your original contract of employment or was this a separate agreement for that specifc HGV training you underwent at the time?
2. Do you have a copy of that agreement? If not I would suggest that you request a copy from HR.
3. Does your contract of employment have any clause about deductions from salary and if so what does it over if examples are given?

Thanks

[Matt-edwards]

Hi thank you for taking the time to reply.

1. It was a separate contract for the training

2. And 3. I have asked for copies of both the training contract and my employment contract hopefully I'll get them early next week.

[ULA]

Thanks for coming back with answers to the questions. I suggest that once you have both those documents it may be worth posting up an anonymised copy of the training contract if it is not too long and just confirming any clauses in your contract in relations to deductions from wages. I can then provide some more detailed advised.

Have a lovely weekend.

[Matt-edwards]

Hi hope you had a good weekend.

Unfortunately I'm still waiting on receiving my contracts but have had an email today stating the following.

My understanding is that the amount owed will be paid back in 3 instalments and the first instalment will be deducted from your October salary payment. You will receive a letter confirming the arrangement terms. The letter will have forms for you to complete and return. It is important that you do this as soon as possible to ensure the whole amount is not deducted from your final salary.

I understand that your department have a copy of the agreement that you signed when you took the training initially; although you were unsuccessful at gaining the licence at that time, the department kept the option open.

Any insight on this? Can an agreed contract just be "kept the option open"

I really do appreciate any and all advice.

[Matt-edwards]

Please find attached the training contract.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b2e...w?usp=drivesdk

[echat11]

Please find attached the training contract.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b2e...w?usp=drivesdk

You really need to redact your personal details.

[Matt-edwards]

Thanks new edited link

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t?usp=drivesdk

[ULA]

Do you have any written correspondence from your department that states following your failed test the option and therefore the agreement would be held open. If not I would push back and ask for that.

Aside from that I have an observation at point 6.7 Financial assistance does not include and then it lists what would not be covered and 6.7.6 states "Retaking of any part of, or the whole of the course of study already undertaken." My interpretation is that if further financial support would not have covered for you to undertake the same course again then if you had asked to do it again, the answer should have been no under this clause and you would have had to pay for the training yourself.

However, from your original post it appears that you were "told I'm going for the training again" can you clarify this comment please? Did your employer ask you to attend the training or was this something you requested and they agreed?

If the former then I am wondering whether you could argue that under section 1 introduction, it states part-way down "To this end, the Council operates the Scheme, which provides financial assistance for non mandatory training that relates to the Employee's current job role, and in so doing compliments and/or supplements existing job related qualifications." If your employer was mandating this training by asking you to undertake it then potentially this agreement may not apply.
On the flip side to this is if it was at your request to retake the training and they then agreed, despite clause 6.7.6, then arguably it may have been felt that the original agreement would stand, although personally I would have got you to sign a new agreement.

Not sure whether this is any help but it may hinge on how the retaking of the training came about.

[Matt-edwards]

Hi thank you for taking the time to look through this for me.

Unfortunately there is no correspondence regarding it being "kept open" only to the grounds of that being the argument now

all that happened with regards to getting the training again, I was asked to go see my line manager who asked for my drivers licence so he could book the training. To be honest it was a bit out of the blue as since I failed in 2014 it has been mentioned once or twice if I was still interested. With the last time being probably a couple years ago.

[ULA]

My only suggestion then, given what you have said, is to try and argue that there is clasue 6.7.6 in the original agreement that you signed in 2013 which states that financial support will not be provided for "Retaking of any part of, or the whole of the course of study already undertaken." Meaning that further financial support would not cover you to undertake the same course again.

Therefore, having been asked to do it again by your line manager, many years later you assumed that the course was considered mandatory and therefore payable by the company, notwithstanding that the agreement signed in 2013 was only intended to cover the training at that time. If the company wanted to consider that the retake could be covered under the training agreement notwithstanding clause 6.7.6 then they should have required you to sign a new agreement.

Not sure if that will work but worth a try.

[echat11]

Thinking aloud, has anyone at the firm received HGV training with out 'the contract', i.e. ongoing employee training?