Disclosure of Tax Records Request by Respondent

[COMROG]

I have submitted an ET claim that I am an employee/worker for the respondent.
I am registered as self employed with HMRC and submitted tax returns for the past 11years while working for the respondent company (not denied).
The respondent's solicitors have now requested disclosure of my tax records for the period stating they are highly relevant to the issue of my employment status.
They state an application will be made to the ET if I do not comply with the request within 7 days.
Are they entitled to this request as there is no dispute that I am and have been registered as self employed.

[ULA]

Potentially the respondent's solicitor is trying to ascertain your true employment status as to whether you were an employee/worker or genuinely a self employed person. In the latter case, if this were proven, you would have limited employment rights and potentially therefore not able to bring the claim you are making. This will be the point that I guess they will want to argue.

If you do not provide the documents as requested then as they say they will make an application to the Tribunal for an Order that will require you to disclose the documents. The Tribunal does have to grant the Order and I believe that you would be given the opportunity to respond to the request by giving reason/s as to why the documents do not need to be disclosed before the Tribunal makes a decision.

[Aged William]

Some musings...

Do you have payslips, a P45 or any P60s that show PAYE deductions? NIC Class 1 in particular.

Did HMRC issue a tax code to you/employer?

And, obviously, what does the contract and/or advert for the position say?

[COMROG]

Just to clarify:

I was a self employed taxi driver with the same company until March this year when I was unfairly dismissed (part of ET claim)..
Therefore, submitted SA Returns every year, no payslips, P45, etc - I did pay NIC Class 4 until I was 65 (now 70).
No tax code obviously, no contract, just had to accept SA at the time of engagement as no alternative.
However, following Uber, Addison Lee, other taxi driver ET cases, I concluded I have employee/worker rather than SE.
Time will tell.
Ula, going back to the Returns, HMRC go back to 2016/17 - I believe I have access to 2014/15, 15/16 as my records normally span the past 6 years.
If necessary, would HMRC provide copies?
Do you think that 6 YEARS would be sufficient at present as the next hearing is only to establish employment status - not to calculate NL Wage, etc.

[ULA]

Thank you so much for the clarification which all makes sense given the cases you associate your situation with.

My understanding is that as a self-employed person you must keep tax records for at least 5 years after the 31 January submission deadline of the relevant tax year since HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) may want to check your records to make sure you are paying the right amount of tax. In which case I would say 6 years should be sufficient at present. When you go back to the respondent's solicitor you may want to point out the above point in respect of their request for 11 years worth.

As you rightly say the next hearing will be to establish your employment status and as a consequence whether the ET had juridstriction to hear the case.

[COMROG]

Many thanks Ula - I will follow up with the solicitor's response - I'm sure this is part of trying to 'rattle my cage'!

[ULA]

If you need any more support as this moves forward for you just come back to this thread.

[COMROG]

I am the claimant in an ET case with 2 respondents.
I sent my witness statement on the day stated in the Case Management Order.
The CMO required my statement to be no more than 2000 words (+5% if necessary), ie. 2100 (my word count was 2095, just under, declared at the end of the WS as required by the CMO).
The WS of the 2nd respondent (represented by a solicitor & counsel) is over 3100 words, not stated at the end as required, the length also restricted to 2100 as above.
I have not received a copy of the 1st respondent's WS due a week ago.
Any views please on the Tribunal's thinking, please.

[ULA]

Is this the same tribunal claim that you have posted about in your thread with the title of "Disclosure of Tax Records Request by Respondent"? If so I would like to merge these threads as it make it easier for those if us providing advice to have the full facts availalbe on a matter.

Thanks

[COMROG]

Yes, it is Ula, thanks

[ULA]

Dependent on whether the first respondent is represented or not I suggest you email either them or their representative asking them for the witness statement by immediate return since in accordance with the CMO it is now overdue. I would do this first prior to making any application to the Tribunal.

[COMROG]

Thanks, Ula

Just to update my original question regarding the request for the disclosure of tax records, I sent the solicitor copies of my annual tax summaries that can be found on the HMRC 'At a glance' page in relation to filing returns. The solicitor appeared to be satisfied with the response as it confirmed my UTR number and therefore registration as a SE person and the submission of SE returns and the subsequent payment of income tax/NI where applicable on a SE basis.

Turning to the second part of my question on witness statements, i.e.

'The WS of the 2nd respondent (represented by a solicitor & counsel) is over 3100 words and the word count is not stated at the end as required by the CMO, the length being restricted to 2100.

Do you have any comment as to this non-compliance with the CMO, i.e. is it that crucial?

I, too, had my witness statement come in more than 3000 words & spent a long time reducing to 2100 in order to comply, leaving out detail that could be considered relevant.

[ULA]

Tribunals in certain regions (but not all), routinely imposed strict limits on bundle sizes and witness statement lengths to ensure that both parties focus on the relevant issues and evidence. However I do not have any evidence as to what the Tribunal's view is on those that do not comply. My only thought on it is that a represented party with a solicitor and counsel may have a dimmer view taken on it by the Tribunal, on the basis that given their experience and understanding of Tribunal process they should have, on behalf of their client, ensured adherance to what was set out in the CMO but that is only my opinion and not based on any fact.

It may be something that at an appropriate time you will get the opportunity to point out to the Tribunal.

[COMROG]

Thanks, Ula - Happy New Year

This morning, I was copied into the 2nd Respondent's solicitor's application email to the Tribunal to increase the word limit from 2100 to 3200 words.
Additionally, he has emailed the 1st Respondent (but not the Tribunal) giving him until 4.00pm today to provide his WS.

[ULA]

I suppose if the Tribunal accepts an increase for 2nd Respondent they will need to do it for all parties.

As it was a chaser to 1st Respondent to provide the WS this would not have been something to send to the Tribunal.