Suspension from worksuspension from work

[Stillo]

Good Afternoon.

Thank you very much for your response. I can confirm that my wife will be appealing the decision only to clear her name. She will not be taking up any employment with that company. She has today been to see one of her contacts at an employment agency the contact is actually the manager who deals with my wife on a daily basis, so she knows how good she is. She has even commented that they know that she has not been at work because nothing is getting done to pay agency staff wages.

The agency have just advertise the post that would be absolutely ideal for the as she has vast experience in production planning, but the role is for an employment coordinator, but she does have very good knowledge of how the agency works as she dealt with them on a daily basis, the agency don't know the reason for a suspension or dismissal. That is why she will appeal to clear her name.

The company sent out a letter yesterday telling her that she was dismissed and in that letter. It states that the trust between the company and the employee is broken down beyond repair. So regardless of the outcome of the appeal, even if they offered to reinstate the trust as now completely gone and she would never ever be able to settle knowing that they've already told that the trust is gone. That is the reason she does not want to go back but at the end of the day if this new post with this agency doesn't pan out. Then she will have no alternative but to return until she finds alternative employment. But she has absolutely no intentions of carrying on with this company.

I thank you very much for your patience and your responses. I am eternally grateful. My wife is now much cheerier today knowing that she may be able to get employment with the agency.

Take care. Have a nice weekend
regards
STILLO

[Stillo]

I am sorry for coming back to you again but I have another question I would like to ask if I may, one of the reasons my wife was dismissed was because the manager who instigated the investigation, said thats he did not raise a works order on 27 May for the goods that he saw under her desk, he openly admits he saw these goods under their desk. On 27 May and we have that in writing from the minutes of the meeting.

On 27 May my wife raised a works order and gave it to the young man who goes to the wharehouseto pick the goods and he said in a signed statement that he did collect the goods for my wife with a works order. So therefore that broke that she did raise works order. Yet the manager has now turned around and said that this young man who signed the statement, saying that he got my wife the goods she was asking for with a works order was mistaken and he got it wrong yet he has signed a statement.

Now, with the manager is stating that this young man got it wrong and she did not raise a works order then this young man must have been complicit in getting these goods to my wife's yet he has not been investigated, so it would appear that my wife has been singled out for this treatment.the reason I say this is due to the fact that the manager admits he saw these goods under my wife's desk on 27 May yet states that this young man was wrong about the debts. How could he possibly be wrong about the dates if the manager openly admits he saw them on 27 May, so according to this this young man was also guilty of not adhering to company practice, this is another one of the reasons my wife was dismissed

A works order was raised, the young man admits in a signed statement that my wife did raise works order, the manager says no works order was raised, so therefore we believe that this young man should have been investigated as well as my wife as I have stated she could not possibly have got old of these goods as this young man in her department had to go over to the other warehouse to pick the goods.

Also, the letter that she has dismissing her and giving the reasons does not contain anything at all about her having the chance to appeal, now with my wife, played dumb and she said she didn't know she could appeal then can we do anything about it.obviously this will be given in evidence to the employment tribunal as we fully intend to bring this to a tribunal

Please bear in mind, my wife has been at this company for 38 years and has never ever had to appeal anything, so she didn't know she could appeal, obviously she's going to do so but we are going to say that somebody told her she had to appeal otherwise she may be admitting guilt but the company did not give the opportunity to appeal. There is nothing in writing or she has is a letter dismissing her.

I am extremely sorry for writing so many posts, but we are trying to make sure that she doesn't take the blame for anything that she hasn't done particularly when somebody else has to be involved, but they have not investigated that.

I hope you have a nice weekend and thank you for taking the time to read and to respond to my post. I am forever in your debt.

Take care.
Still, or

[ULA]

Has your wife been given a copy of the company disciplinary procedure, or is it available via on the company network/intranet?

Under the ACAS Code of Practice for Disciplinary & Grievance any disciplinary action taken by an employer requires them to give the right to the employee of appealing against the decision. Therefore when your wife writes her letter, she should make it very clear that since the company has not given her that right in their correspondence of xxx date and following her taking legal advice, she understands that under the ACAS Code of Practice for Disciplinary & Grievance she has the right to appeal and she in invoking that right.

There will be clearly several issues upon which she can appeal the decision, however one of them will be the fact that there is a signed witness statement that the goods were collected based on the raising of a works order. If the company is saying that original witness statement is in fact incorrect then why has the company not provided a further signed statement from the individual concerned to that effect and also stating that your wife presumes that this person is now under investigation.

[Stillo]

Once again I am extremely grateful for your input and you've raised the point that we would never ever thought about doing and that is asking for an updated witness statement which will be done on appeal.

Going through the letter that she has received terminating her employment with the company. We can pick many holes in this letter, the man who carried out the disciplinary admits in the letter that they find it very hard to understand what she has done. Now if they find it very hard then quite clearly they don't understand and if they don't understand then why was she sacked

The most important part in the letter to me is completely and utterly wrong. The manager who instigated all of this is completely and utterly confused with its dates. They make absolutely no sense whatsoever; my wife raised a works order on 27 May. She has a signed statement from the young man who brought the goods, the manager says that he did see these goods under their desk between 27 May and 5 June and he gradually saw them disappearing over this period, the manager has taken photographs and a video of an empty cardboard box and not on the days he said he saw them going missing by 5 June, according to him of the goods had gone missing. Yet he didn’t ask the person he recruited as a spy until 8 June to keep an eye on. I presume an empty cardboard box
On 8 June. He asked one of his company employees. he had actually recruited as a spy to keep an eye on these goods. How can he possibly ask somebody to keep an eye on some goods on 8 June when he has already indicated that the goods had gone missing by 5 June. This in fact suggests to me that is asked another employee to keep an eye on an empty box to let him know if s he sees anything happening.
this employee reported back to the manager that she saw nothing happening. She saw nobody taking anything yet, according to whim these items were already missing. We cannot understand why you would ask somebody to keep an eye on an empty box 3 days after he said the goods are gone missing.
They haven’t actually sacked my wife’s for theft. They have sacked for a breach of trust and confidence, to me, that should be the other way around. My wife now is absolutely no confidence in her manager and that is what hopefully we shall be using as a defence in a tribunal claim.
She received this letter via email and she was told that she would receive one in the post and employment was terminated on 26 August and she received an email on 27 August with an attached letter that wasn’t even signed by anyone. So to me the gentleman who carried out the disciplinary hasn’t even read the letter, as it has not been signed, I’m extremely sorry for going on about this, but I believe we are now getting somewhere. Even though unemployment has been terminated. I think we are on the road to proving that she genuinely made a mistake and she genuinely held their hands up to a mistake yet I feel the punishment is a bit too severe
Once again, thank you very very much for the reply. You have just given me. I am extremely grateful and you are actually given me some information that I would never have thought of, it seems a shame to bring somebody else into the equation, but unfortunately we don’t have any choice.

Take care
stillo

[Stillo]

hello, could I please ask a further few questions with regards to my wife's dismissal, my wife has lodged an appeal with the company as she wishes to clear a name, but as absolutely no desire to return to the company as she has secured further employment and is quite happy to continue with the new employer. However, we are concerned that they may on appeal offer her a job back as they are absolutely struggling one of their major customers is on the verge of pulling out of the contract as they cannot fulfil one of the stipulations of the contract and that is for them to supply the customer with a product by a certain date,

The lady who covered her role thoughtswhat she did was dead easy and was desperate to get her hands on my wifesrole now that she's doing it she is on the verge of a nervous breakdown because she cannot do the job. She has absolutely no idea what my wife did and the management are getting on at her,there is nobody in the company who can do what my wife did, including the senior management. They have absolutely no idea, my wife spoke to one of our very good friends who works there and a meeting was called to tell them that jobs may be lost and that they would have to have a fundamental change of their hours to enable them to try to meet the target of the major customer everybody is up in arms as they are family and children and they do not want to go onto shifts

The first question I would like to ask is what would be a reasonable time limit for the company to consider her appeal as it has now been 2 1/2 weeks since she submitted her appeal and that's heard nothing from the company apart from acknowledgement of her letter via email.

Number two. If my wifes appeal is successful, can she accept her position back and immediately resign, claiming constructive dismissal as the manager has done nothing but lie to suit his own purposes, and she would have no trust or confidence in him and would be worried that he would do this again, therefore making it impossible for her to work for him.

And number three when my wife was dismissed. Should she have received a letter from the H R department and not from the man who carried out the disciplinary, I know that the disciplinary is to decide the outcome, but should the have been informed by the HR and not by the man who carried out the investigation.the letter is signed by the financial director and not from the head of HR,

I hope you have a good day.
Take care.
stillo

[ULA]

In answer to your questions:

1. As part of the company's disciplinary procedure is there any time stated in regard to responding to an appeal. If not then under the ACAS Code of Practice it states that "Appeals should be heard without unreasonable delay" and therefore I would suggest that once your wife reaches the 3 week time period it would be worth an email to request an update on when what is happening with her appeal.

2. Again your wife will need to refer to the company's disciplinary procedure and check whether the company can change a dismissal to a lesser penalty, such as a warning or demotion on appeal. My understanding in this situation is that, If she is unhappy about this and refuses to return to work then your wife would be unlikely to succeed in a claim for unfair dismissal because the dismissal decision would have been rectified. If the appeal procedure states that a lesser penalty can be imposed but with the individual's consent and she then refuses, the dismissal decision will remain and she would be able to pursue an unfair dismissal claim.

That said your wife may still be able to pursue a claim for constructive unfair dismissal if she can show that the company’s conduct has resulted in a fundamental breach of her contract. This means that the company's behaviour has resulted in a significant breach that is integral to the employment contract i.e. the implied term of trust and confidence, or which shows they no longer intend to be bound by the terms of the contract. In this case she would be effectively resigning because of their behaviour rather than being unfairly dismissed.

3. I would not get overly "hung up" on whether the person who conducted the disciplinary or the HR department signed the letter confirming the outcome of the disciplinary and giving your wife the right of appeal. In some instances this is drafted by the HR department and signed off by the manager who conducted the meeting and in other instances it comes from HR.

[Stillo]

thank you very much for your very concise response. We are truly grateful, I'm unsure if the disciplinary procedure would allow for a lesser discipline. It doesn't say it can and it doesn't say it cannot theequal me

after speaking to ACAS today. They have advised her to contact the company giving them 14 days for an update as it is now been two weeks and she has had absolutely no response whatsoever, they have also advised to ask that the evidence that they hold that makes them believe she is guilty of the offence, we have asked before that this evidence and we have also asked for a copy of the minutes of the last meeting, but so far they have ignored these requests.

There disciplinary procedure does say we will provide you with any evidence we have at your disciplinary meeting in writing or within two days of the meeting in writing, but no evidence has been provided. The man who conducted the interview due said he thinks she is guilty but thinking is not good enough. We want solid evidence, if they can provide solid evidence then we really cannot dispute the outcome.

fortunately, my wife has found further employment and has been with this new employer for the past seven days and is quite happy to stay there. It's just that she wants to clear her name and have the element of we believe you are responsible removed from the disciplinary letter, she doesn't want any thing hanging over her head. Should she need to provide references to any future employers, fortunately the new employer. She is just starting with does not want any references as she is on a trial period

Once again I thank you very much for your valuable time and I will of course let you know the outcome. Once this matter is resolved.

Take care have a good evening.

Regards
stillo

[Stillo]

Good Evening just a further update and the question if I may please, my wife has been in contact with a ACAS because she put an appeal in against her dismissal on the advice of ACAS and it is now been four weeks, two weeks after lodging the appeal and not hearing anything my wife contacted ACAS to ask for their advice and their advice was to send the company an email giving them 14 days for an update and if no update to then apply for early conciliation.

Yesterday, after hearing nothing at all from the company five weeks after being dismissed and appeal been sent four weeks ago ACAS have now issued her with a certificate to take the matter to a tribunal.

Now I'm sorry but I may be a little bit thick but HR from her old company centre an email today saying that they have heard that she has a new job and what would they like them to do with regards to the appeal, I would think that they want this to go away as all the evidence points to the manager, singling her out and are frightened to go to a tribunal.

Am I possibly reading something into this email that they have centre today asking what outcome she is looking for or is it just a standard thing companies do, as far as we are concerned this matter is going to a tribunal regardless of the outcome, but I'm just hoping they don't offer her job back as she would have to turn it down, as ever, thank you very much for taking the time to read this and thank you very much for any advice you may offer.

Take care.
StilloI

[ULA]

Sorry I am a bit confused as it appears from what you have said ACAS have automatically issued the early conciliation certificate due to your wife not hearing back from the company in the specified timescale not because ACAS have failed to get some form of coniliation agreed by both parties.

I would suggest that your wife responds to the email from the company along the line of:

Thank you for your email. As you will be aware I lodged an appeal against my dismissal on xxxx, having not heard from you I sent further correspondence on xxx giving you 14 days to respond. Having not had a response to any of my correspondence I applied to ACAS for Early Concilition, for which I now have a certificate for pursing my claim for xxxx to an Employment Tribunal. I am open to agreeing a settlement of my claim in advance of any Tribunal hearing and on that basis, if you would like to make a proposal of a financial offer, then I will give it my consideration.

[Stillo]

Thank you once again for your swift response, I'm very sorry I may not of worded things correctly, my wif had lodged an appeal with the company and heard nothing from them whatsoever. After contacting ACAS. They advised her to send them an email giving them 14 days for an update and if she had not received it their to contact ACAS again and they would issue a certificate.

24 hours after contacting ACAS allmy wife's ex-employer centre an email asking her what outcome she was looking for. Shortly after receiving this email from her HR Department ACAS issued a certificate and we informed the company that we are looking to take the matter to tribunal, she is not after any financial settlement. All she wants is to take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal because they have been completely and utterly unreasonable. They have not listened to any witness statements whatsoever and all the evidence points to my wife not been guilty of any offences. It would seem that the manager is making things up as he goes along and they have relied solely on the evidence from the manager without any corroborative evidence whatsoever.

My wife has secured further employment and is quite happy to carry on where she is also she wabts justice for the way that this company has treated and she will accept the outcome of any tribunal hearing. My wife is not interested in any settlement from the company she wants a letter clearing her name completely.

On Saturday morning, she received an email from the company asking her five further questions and the answers to these questions have already been given twice in both the investigation and in the final disciplinary hearing, so they are just going over old ground.

in the event that the company reinstates her I would like to find out if it would be possible to accept and then immediately resign, claiming constructive dismissal as in the discipline letter. It states that the company have lost trust and confidence in her. But it would seem the trust and confidence has been lost by my wife in regards to the manager. She worked for therefore she could resign immediately, claiming a loss of trust and confidence in her manager is he has done nothing but lie in his evidence, the dates that he as supplied I completely and utterly contradicting each other. He says he saw them on the desk, on 27 May. Yet he then says he saw them. The first week of June, his evidence is completely utterly untrustworthy


I will of course keep you updated on any progress.

Take care.
stillo

[Stillo]

Good Evening.

Just a further update with regards to this matter it would seem that taking it to a tribunal as only got a 50-50 chance of success we have had legal advice and the solicitor says that the company is probably not followed the correct procedure but it would seem that it is up to my partner to prove that she has not stolen anything and not for the company to prove that she has.

I can only presume that this means that if you have worked in a company for quite a long time and they want rid of you all the have to do is make something up and it is up to you to prove it not them anywhere my partner has decided not to take the matter any further as we are not prepared to spend between 3000 and £5000 only for a 50-50 chance, she is settled into her new job and is quite happy where she is so there's not really much of a problem any more so all I can do is thank you all for your wonderful advice and for answering my many questions.

Take care
stillo

[ULA]

Thank you for taking the time to come back to us with your update.

I wish you and your wife all the best and hope that her new job goes well.