Suspension from worksuspension from work

[Stillo]

Good Afternoon.

I'm sorry, I am back again but I need some further help my wife has today found out that the company intends to reinvestigate this matter after last Tuesdaysmeeting where the indicated that there was to be no further action due to that investigation been completed and the only action to be taken would be to decide on what discipline to carry out for the mistake she made with down dating the sheets.

My wife is now in tears because HR indicated last Tuesday that their investigation had come to an end, and they were making their decision. That afternoon, the HR manager has now gone on holiday and sent out an email today telling them that they are going to review all the evidence, surely this is just keeping her dangling on a piece of string, is there any steps we can take to now sure that the HR and Management have been unreasonable in their investigations.

I would really appreciate any advice you may give me so that I can put her mind at rest. She is absolutely devastated.

Regards
David

[ULA]

So your wife has received an email on a Sunday afternoon which i presume is a non-work day for her as the first she has heard about this?

What reason have they given for reopening the investigation? Have they said whether it is because they have received any new evidence?
Has your wife by any chance raised her grievance yet?

[Stillo]

thank you very much for your questions and I can answer no to all of them, last Tuesday, 28 July my wife went to a meeting at work, where they toldher e they had carried out the investigation and accepted that there was nothing to answer. However, she did agree that she did do something on the PC and for that there would decide what punishment to give that afternoon on Friday she sent an email to the HR Department asking what was going on and why it was taking so long to tell her of their decision. She never received a reply until today from the HR Department telling her that the person investigating was now on holiday until 10 August so the investigation would be reopened on the HR investigating officer's return.

There is no evidence she has never been presented with any evidence and they are now attempting to discipline the something that was never in the original investigation.

No new evidence has come to light. She has not yet put any grievance in but she is absolutely distraught that they are going to reinvestigate she feels like she's been dangled on a piece of string waiting and waiting, not knowing what is going to happen to herI cannot believe that they can act in this manner

Regards
David

[ULA]

Given what you have said in your last email could it just be a badly worded response your wife received on Sunday.

Given what you have said maybe the HR person who is now on holiday, had not made a decision on what disciplinary action should be taken for what your wife has agreed happened on her PC and that nothing can therefore happen on the matter until that individual has returned.

[Stillo]

Good Afternoon

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but unfortunately my wife's HR Department of been worse than useless the lady is only just got in touch with to tell what is happening and that is this Thursday 20th of August. She is to attend a disciplinary hearing where it could possibly end in her dismissal, she is now nervous wreck as they have previously said that is not much to answer, and now that's led to possible dismissal.

I have asked my wife to ask on three separate occasions four minutes of the meetings that there valve for any documentation that they are relying on and for any witness statements or any other needed documentations that they will be relying on.

My wife has not been given the chance to see the information she has honoured doing anything wrong and they are still not providing it. Surely if they are going to accuse it of something they shouldn't really provider with all the evidence they have so that she can prepare a defence.

They have now gone from saying they have no evidence that she had done anything wrong to manipulating the work systems which is against company policy, but the very man who started all this has her manipulating the systems at every stop. Check so that he doesn't look bad when the auditors coming as they have thousands and thousands of pounds of stock going missing all the time so it looks like he asks her to manipulate the figures so that is department doesn't look bad, she can prove this by asking for all the reports that she has done on the specific dates when the stock checks have taken place and they will be able to see that she has adjusted many things, all with the managing directors consent.

They have now brought another manager into the equation and he will be carrying out the disciplinary this Thursday my wife is never spoken to him. He has never asked anything so out can she possibly defend herself.

Sorry for all the questions but we really don't know what to do. It seems that they are determined to pin something on herand they are not allowing to gather witnesses or any else she may need to help her case.

Thank you in advance for any further help. You may offer

Regards
stillo

[ULA]

In accordance with ACAS guidelines, unless there is a company disciplinary policy that says differently, your wife needs to be formally invited to a disciplinary meeting, provided full details of the allegations against her and all the documentary evidence that the company is going to rely on at the meeting. In addition she needs to be told what the outcome may be if disciplinary action is taken, that she has the right to be accompanied and give reasonable time before the meeting to be able to prepare her defence.

I would suggest that if your wife has not been provided notification as set out above she writes to her employer requesting that they do so and consider delaying the meeting dependent on how soon they can adhere to the ACAS guidelines.

[Stillo]

Good Afternoon

Thank you for the very quick response. The company have told that she is invited to a disciplinary meeting on Thursday. They have told that disciplinary hearing is now about not following company procedures. They have provided no evidence whatsoever. They have not told anything other than not following company procedures.but they have in their email said that this is gross misconduct

Although she has not followed company procedures to the letter. She has done exactly what the operations director is told to do and that is to get rid of any missing items from the computer system so that it doesn't show up when auditors are decked after their stock check, she complied with instructions from the operations director, and she has done nothing else, they have told the outcome could be dismissal but they have told nothing else they have told she can have somebody at the meeting, but the company of never allowed any union to come into the workplace. She cannot have a work colleague with as she has been told not to discuss this matter with any work colleagues.

She has asked for copies of reports that she gets everyday so that she can ensure them at the meeting. What she does and doesn't do, because to be quite frank, I don't really think they understand what she does.

Thank you very much for your time. I think she is now prepared to let the company do a step please and then to take them to a tribunal if necessary. Looking at the ACAS code of practice I don't think they followed it correctly and hopefully this will go in our favour.

take care have a good day
regards
stillo

[ULA]

The ACAS guideline is good practice, however I suggest that your wife gets a copy of the company disciplinary procedure to see what they set out as their process to be.

If the company does not recognise a union then would she want a colleague to attend, if so she should notify the company that she wants to be able to speak to this person to find out if they would accompany her.

[Stillo]

Hello again, the company does not and has never recognised trade union, inner original letter. She was told she must not contact any member of staff so that rules out getting a colleagueto assist her.

We have now once again asked for all evidence that they hold on her with regards to what they are holding the disciplinary hearing for and they have failed to provide the evidence so she's worried that when she goes to this meeting on Thursday. She will not be able to defend herself as she will have no idea what evidence they do or do not have.

Another thing they are holding the meeting at 3 PM and she officially finishes work at 3:30 PM. It seems to me that they have already made their mind up what they are going to do is 30 minutes is nowhere near enough to carry out the hearing, especially one as serious as this.

She has asked the HR Department to provide her with copies of the reports that she gets every day so that she can show them at the meeting. What she does and doesn't do the only reply she had, why do you want them, if she does not receive any evidence or any documents that she has asked for by tomorrow evening, then there is less than 72 hours before her meeting, how can she possibly defend herself, she has also asked for the minutes of all meetings so that she can see what was and what was not said, and they have also failed to provide these

One of the allegations is that things have gone missing from under her desk, but she has a shared desk that at least 100 people have access to she is not in an office. She is on raised platform where their computers and her colleagues computer is I'm concerned she's been singled out when is quite possible that any member of staff could have taken things from under her desk or under the shared desk

is it possible that the company can just accuse of an offence without actually providing any evidence? It seems like the company do not have any evidence and they are just now attempting to put the blame on her for anything they can so they don't look stupid.

Is it possible if they don't provide any evidence that my wife could make a constructive dismissal claim as the trust between her and her employer have now broken down. I think beyond repair, I've told no matter what happens on Thursday that a claim for inside dismissal will be brought before theemployment tribunal, they have not been helpful at all. It seems like they just want to get this over and done with, without providing any evidence, I would be grateful if you could please tell me how we could go about making sure that they provide us with the evidence they have, or are they allowed to just not provide it.

Take care.
stillo

[ULA]

I would suggest that your wife emails the company/HR department from her personal email address this evening, along the lines of

Dear XX

As you are aware i have been asked to attend a disciplinary hearing on Thurs 20 August at 3pm, the allegations of which you have determined as gross misconduct. In order to prepare my defence I formally request the following:

1. That you provide me with all the documentation that supports your allegations and on which the company is going to rely on at the meeting, in order that I can prepare my defence.
2. Copies of the reports that I have previously requested on xxx date which have not yet been provided.
3. Copies of the minutes of the investigatory meeting.
4. As part of my suspension I have not been allowed to contact any colleagues, however since the company does not recognise a union I would like a colleague present and request permission to be able to contact xxxx to ask then to attend. (This is optional)
5. Given the seriousness of what you have alleged, the appointment time you have provided is only 30 minutes prior to my normal finish time, which I do not feel provides enough time for a fair hearing to take place, given the severity of the situation.

Should the company not provide the necessary information requested to support the allegations and allow me to prepare an adequate defence then, given the ACAS guidelines, I am not certain how the company can consider this to be a "full and fair procedure".

Given that the meeting is only just over 60 hours away from time of writing, I trust that you will provide me with urgent receipt of the information formally requested in order that I can have "reasonable" time to prepare my defence. I would also require confirmation that I can speak with xxx. (This last sentence is optional)

There are some optional sentences in my draft around having a colleague present. Even if she has been not been allowed, under her suspension to contact anyone at work, this does not give up her right to be accompanied at the meeting. In these situations I would suggest your wife does have a colleague there to support her even if only to take notes but it is entirely up to her.

By putting this all in an email, which your wife need to keep her own copy of, if they do disregard this request you will have a trail to that effect in the event this gets taken further i.e. to an employment tribunal.

[Stillo]

Good Evening.

Thank you very much. This is extremely helpful and it will be done within the next hour. However, we are both not confident that the information will be provided so I feel that she may be going to a disciplinary where the outcome is already been determined by the management team, it seems like no matter what she says they are absolutely adamant they are going to get her for something.

I thank you very much for taking the time to compose this email on her behalf and we are eternally grateful for the time and effort you have taken to answer our questions, I shall let you know the outcome on Thursday, but I'm afraid I may be reporting that they have dismissed the without a fair investigation

take care have a good evening
Regardws
stillothe

[ULA]

I hope the company does respond to the email your wife sends.

Just come back to this thread if you have any more questions between now and Thurs an if not please let us know how Thurs goes.

There will be an appeal process your wife is entitled to if disciplinary action is taken so there is still an internal process to follow.

[Stillo]

Thank You

stillo

[Stillo]

Good Evening.

Justas promised, as of yesterday 26 August 2020 my wife's employment has been terminated on suspicion of falsifying records and missing goods.

Obviously my wife is going to appeal as things just do not add up. The company said that all trust is broken down between them and her so she could no longer work for that company. We are going to be bringing a claim for unfair dismissal and hopefully breach of contract as the trust between my wife and her company is broken down altogether. My wife is absolutely not trust in them whatsoever.

The letter goes on to state that the manager saw some goods under her desk seven days before she requested them from the system is absolutely impossible for her to get her hands on anything. If she does not raise a works order she cannot get them at all.the witness did stay that he did bring goods to desk but the manager is trying to make out it was seven days previously and they went missing that she can prove that his dates are completely wrong and he cannot possibly have seen them under her desk on the days he said he did, is now saying that is witness got it completely wrong, but the witness signed a statement and we have that statement

The letter then goes on to state that the manager saw some other goods under her table that subsequently went missing. Yet no order was ever raised for these other goods, so the manager has completely contradicted himself and I believe we have the evidence to prove this as it states on my wife's dates just do not stack up.

Ultimately, my wife has no intention whatsoever going back to work for this company regardless of the outcome of any appeal, but we have been advised by a cats that she needs to go through the appeals process before she can bring it to an industrial tribunal.

Is it possible that on appeal, the company could give her back her job, but she refuses to accept it due to the fact that trust is now broken down and if so, can she bring a claim for constructive dismissal as well as unfair dismissal.

As I said, she has absolutely no intentions of going back to work for this company but she wants to clear her name which I believe she has the evidence to do so. The personals looks at this evidence against seems to have just taken the manager's word for it is the manager also states that one of his witness statements signed by the witness had got it all wrong.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions over the last few weeks and thank you very much for any response to this post, we are no longer worried as the company has just proved that it is not a very good company to work for.even after 38 years

Take care
Regards
stillo

[ULA]

The issue that your wife has is if she does not appeal and later brings an unfair dismissal claim, she may be penalised by the Employment Tribunal for failing to follow the ACAS Code of Practice on Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures. The consequence being that they can reduce any compensation awarded, if she was successful, by up to 25%.

On the flip side of this, if she does not wish to be re-instated she needs to think carefully before appealing since if there was an offer of re-instatement this will reverse the dismissal, meaning she would be unable to bring an unfair dismissal claim. Following that through if she was reinstated she would then have to resign and try to claim constructive dismissal on the basis of her employer breaching the implied term of trust and confidence.

My cautionary note is that bringing a constructive dismissal claim will put the onus on your wife to prove her case, rather than if her claim was for unfair dismissal, in which case, it would be down to the employer to prove that the dismissal was fair.