Unfair dismissal Ill health

[ULA]

You are correct in that the document cannot be referred to in the tribunal given that it is WP and StC.

You have said in your post that they are still saying that things could have been done better, however even if they had followed a correct procedure the outcome would have been the same i.e. your partner would have still been dismissed, hence the referral to Polkey. However they are still saying that things were not handled perfectly.

They have probably taken legal advice, hence some of the language they are using and any settlement now will be couched in the terms of this is an offer to end the claim but in doing so they will deny that they are at fault. Again this is standard.

How your partner wishes to negotiate, which is what this process is, it needs to be her decision, I can only provide guidance. She could go back and say that she is willing to negotiate, however the offer made is not acceptable can they come back with revised higher offer. I would not suggest that she closes down the possibility to negotiate but at some point she may need to lower what she is willing to accept to get a settlement. However if she does not want to settle then the ET process will continue.

Just something you need to be aware of and i need to mention it, typically in employment tribunals the loser does not pay the winners costs, however if the respondent believes the case to be vexatious, misconceived etc then they may request the judge to award costs and in some cases this has happened. Your partner just needs to be aware of this because if this case continues it is likely at some point the respondents may bring this into play, they often do when dealing with a litigant in person.

Just as another thought does your partner have legal expenses cover through any sort of insurance policy, car or home? If she does then it may be worth contacting them and seeing if they can provide legal advice or even take the case on.
Plus your partner will always have the support of us here on Beagles

[MIKE770]

just an insight to an old case?:-

In the 80s an employee was in hospital recovering from a heart attack, a very large company sent personnel in to the ward and duly informed that employee that due to his condition his job is no longer open as he will never be able to work again? ? moving on I contacted the local union representative and the case as he was one of my members, who got it to a tribunal eventually,

Talk about not doing their homework:- At the tribunal he was asked is he was on benefits and what were they? reply was none SIR I am a court usher in my new employment at the crown court! located the other end of this building oppsss well the outcome he was awarded max compensation ( not a lot as I know later in my case with the same company) max £5000 in late 80s!

[Lewis2020]

Thank you both for your comments

No unfortunately no legal expense cover, I believe she had some kind of perk with her employment but that was obviously removed when they dismissed her.

Out of curiosity would a no win no fee kind of solicitor be worth a try ? I’ve seen a few advertise online for employment problems etc or is it not worth it for a case like this ?

They also mentioned in the settlement email that my partner never took into account any benefits received since her sacking which should have been included in the settlement offer. I’m pretty sure they think she is probably now claiming a lot of benefits since her sacking when in fact she’s gone from SSP pay at £95.85 a week which the company doubled so £191.70 a week in total. She also then lost 5 weeks of Working tax credits at £136.63 a week so another £683.15 until her 28 weeks sick pay entitlement ended.

Yet since her sacking the only new Benefit she’s claiming to help is contribution based employment and support allowance which is only £74.35 a week as you can see she’s lost out on quite a bit of money since her sacking

would it be worth us mentioning the above Losses in the reply to the settlement offer ? Or is that a bad idea ?


sorry for all the questions and thank you

[ULA]

Yes there are some no win/no fee employment solicitors out there, would just advise to do some research and if you can find reviews on their work that would be advantageous. Also you need to look carefully at their terms and conditions as to the % they will take from any compensation your partner receives as these can vary. It would provide an idea of how viable the case is since they will only take it on if there is a reasonable prospect of success.

Any benefits that she has been able to claim for should have been detailed and taken account of. Reasons as to why she has not managed to claim benefits that are available to her would be useful to state just so that this point is covered, however y

our partner's employer may not be held liable for that situation.

[Lewis2020]

Yes there are some no win/no fee employment solicitors out there, would just advise to do some research and if you can find reviews on their work that would be advantageous. Also you need to look carefully at their terms and conditions as to the % they will take from any compensation your partner receives as these can vary. It would provide an idea of how viable the case is since they will only take it on if there is a reasonable prospect of success.

Any benefits that she has been able to claim for should have been detailed and taken account of. Reasons as to why she has not managed to claim benefits that are available to her would be useful to state just so that this point is covered, however y

our partner's employer may not be held liable for that situation.

Good morning Ula thank you as always Really appreciate your help

[Lewis2020]

Good morning Just a little update on recent activity’s

My partner had a unexpected call on Friday weeks after hearing nothing from the company to say the company are now asking for my partner to make another settlement offer, again reluctantly agreeing after being advised it’s in her best interest so she said £10k

This morning we have now received a email stating that again they disagree with her valuation of the claim and that they decline the £10k settlement offer, bringing in other issues around what her claim is actually worth saying it would be £16k but then saying how highly unlikely it will be that she wins and that she needs to understand the legal financial limits to her claim

They have then gone onto say that in a final attempt to resolve this issue before they start preparing a defence to the claim they are now prepared to to offer £5k on the provision that it can settled in principle before Friday 3rd July.

if settlement cannot be reached before this date then the offer will be withdrawn and they will defend in court

So quite a big jump in the settlement offer from the first one and one that we would be looking to accept can I just get some help and advice though please

what happens now if we accept the offer ? Should we be asking for anything else to be included in the settlement agreement other than a good reference?

thank you in advance

[ULA]

If you decide to settle the case the documented agreement can be done one of two ways either via ACAS in which case it will be a COT3 Agreement and once both parties have verbally agreed, that becomes binding and the documentation will be drawn up by ACAS. Alternatively the other side may get their solicitor to write the agreement. If this is done then it would be know as a Settlement Agreement and on your partner's part it would need to be signed off by an independent legal employment advisor, for which the company should pay a contribution to the cost normally £250 and if it is fairly simple that should suffice.

I would certainly, in either case of how the document is prepared, request an agreed form reference which should be confirmed as acceptable by your partner prior to agreeing to the settlement. This should be included in the document normally as an appendix and for completeness it should be detailed in the body of the document as the reference to be used in all instances.*

I am not sure that there is much else to ask for although just make sure that all other payments due were paid e.g. holiday pay for accrued but untaken holiday and notice pay, if not you need to make sure the payments are included and covered in the agreement as needing to be paid since they are statutory payments that are due outside of the agreed settlement figure.*

[Lewis2020]

Thank you ULA great advice yet again but unfortunately my partner answered a call this afternoon while I was out and she agreed to the settlement agreement as long as a good reference is also provided, instead of asking for what you stated and asked for a agreed form reference

It’s also a COT3 agreement so now legally binding unless they decline the good reference but I can’t see that happening as they offered the reference with the first offer

Not sure how long this whole process takes now to get all set up but at least now there is no tribunal to go through a great relief all round

Thank you again though ULA without your help and advice this would never have been possible so we both really do appreciate everything you have done for us and will make our lives that little bit easier

[ULA]

Thanks for the update. Just make sure that the COT3 reflects that a good reference will be provided since that is part of her verbal agreement.

I wish your partner all the best and hope that she can soon get the pain management treatment that she requires.*

[Lewis2020]

Good afternoon ULA thank you for your kind words we have this afternoon received the COT3 agreement

They have included a reference in the document but it’s not as we expected but again not sure if that’s how references are issued these days simply saying the following

It is the policy of the company to provide references containing information as to employees roles and dates of employment. This should not be seen as implying any comment about the candidate or their suitability for employment

Dates of employment

position held

we wish xxxxxx well in her future career development

would you class that as a good reference ? Or am I just reading to much into it ? We was just expecting something a little better considering the work she done for the company while in good health

[ULA]

It is often the case that an employer will only provide was is called a "factual" reference as detailed above and will not put in anything that could be potentially subjective. So long as they stick to that form of reference that should be fine. Just thinking around this though I know that some employers ask for sickness absence in the last 12 months, that is factual information that this employer may be willing to provide if asked, so your partner depending on any prospective offers of employment she gets may need to cover that one off so that they do not find out first by way of the reference.*