Recording of calls deemed to be Welfare calls

[Photega]

I have been off work sick with Work Related Stress for several weeks and despite it being company policy for manager to make regular Welfare calls but this was not done until after 3 weeks.
When the call did take place it lasted 35 minutes and got quite involved and stressful. The following day which was a Saturday I got a very long, detailed almost word for word account of the telephone call.*
I was discussing the fact that the long awaited Welfare call had taken place with a friend/colleague, they informed me that they had happened to be in the managers office earlier in the week and by chance had seen the contents of an email between the manager concerned and a member of the admin team stating to setup the call for Friday and the admin person would listen in to the call and take down notes of the conversation.
Whilst this isn't a recording as in a machine I do feel shocked that this was arranged and the call which was supposed to be a welfare call was conducted in this way, obviously I have to be careful how I approach this and obviously for fear of reprisals my colleague does not wish to be named as they fear they will be disciplined and dismissed because they were able to see the email, personally I think that the manager concerned was at fault as we are all given and trained on the points of Data Security which includes being aware of someone shoulder surfing the content of what is on their screen..
As it isn't actually a digital recording this was meant to be a confidential welfare call which would include discussing my mental health and therefore having a member of admin staff listening in to the details, would this still be a breach of confidentiality and thus a matter for the Information Commissioners office?
I would also be grateful if you have any ideas how I would go about raising this without my colleague needing to be named.

[Law Student 1]

Personal matters are confidential and should only be shared with others who are on a Need-to-Know basis. If you were only sharing information about your own wellbeing and* you were not made aware that someone else was going to be listening in on the call, this may be a breach of confidentiality.

Therefore, if your manager did not make you aware that someone else would be listening in, you can argue that they breached confidentiality.

There are a of couple options to consider on how to approach your manager about this:

- You can just ask whether anyone else listened in on the call, expressing your concern on sharing sensitive information with anyone other than your manager. They should tell the truth and then you can discuss with them that you should have been made aware of this.

-You can also, if you wish, say that you have been made aware that someone else was listening (without naming anyone) and discuss the issue from there. If asked, you do not need to say who told you.*



*

[Photega]

Personal matters are confidential and should only be shared with others who are on a Need-to-Know basis. If you were only sharing information about your own wellbeing and you were not made aware that someone else was going to be listening in on the call, this may be a breach of confidentiality.

Therefore, if your manager did not make you aware that someone else would be listening in, you can argue that they breached confidentiality.

There are a of couple options to consider on how to approach your manager about this:

- You can just ask whether anyone else listened in on the call, expressing your concern on sharing sensitive information with anyone other than your manager. They should tell the truth and then you can discuss with them that you should have been made aware of this.

-You can also, if you wish, say that you have been made aware that someone else was listening (without naming anyone) and discuss the issue from there. If asked, you do not need to say who told you.

Given this is just a part of a bigger issue with my employer having a informal discussion with my manager is not really an option and my personal opinion is they had this witnessed in an attempt to use in a disciplinary hearing about my current work absence as my manager seems to have a lack of empathy with staff who have mental health issues
So would I have any recourse to legal or authoritive action via an ombudsman service?

[ULA]

There is no ombudsman service that you could access in regard to this. At the moment you need to deal with it via internal processes which as an informal first approach have been outlined by

Law Student 1

. H

owever if you do not feel able to raise this directly with your manager do you have either a more senior manager or HR department that you can speak with over the matter? Effectively this is the first stage of raising a grievance about the potential breach of confidentiality.

I see that you are having a number of issues with your employer at the moment which must be distressing for you and it seems that the matters are related to contracts of employment and the management of sickness absence. On the latter point you now have a couple of threads running regarding sub issues in the whole process, can I just request that in order for us to be able to provide you the best guidance that you use just one thread for any issues relating to the process your employer is undertaking in regard to managing sickness absence. It would just help us to not having to dive between threads and ensure that we can provide consistent advice based on the full information. Thank you

[Photega]

There is no ombudsman service that you could access in regard to this. At the moment you need to deal with it via internal processes which as an informal first approach have been outlined by

Law Student 1

. H

owever if you do not feel able to raise this directly with your manager do you have either a more senior manager or HR department that you can speak with over the matter? Effectively this is the first stage of raising a grievance about the potential breach of confidentiality.

I see that you are having a number of issues with your employer at the moment which must be distressing for you and it seems that the matters are related to contracts of employment and the management of sickness absence. On the latter point you now have a couple of threads running regarding sub issues in the whole process, can I just request that in order for us to be able to provide you the best guidance that you use just one thread for any issues relating to the process your employer is undertaking in regard to managing sickness absence. It would just help us to not having to dive between threads and ensure that we can provide consistent advice based on the full information. Thank you

Unfortunately I have tried raising to the management above and as there has been recently yet another take over we have not been provided with any contact details for HR and a request for that information has also fallen on deaf ears so very difficult to raise as a grievance following the given companies documented procedures

[ULA]

Even if it is relatively recently that a new company has taken over then they should have a grievance policy in place even if as a fall back they adhere to the ACAS guidelines. I suggest that you formally write to them asking for a copy of the grievance procedure, explain that you have already asked for this information and give details of when and to whom but confirm you have not received a response and request that you are provided a response in 5 working days.

My only other thought about the situation is do you know whether the company is still operating as normal given the current situation businesses are facing? If not do you know how they are operating at the moment i.e. the company has stopped working and everyone is furloughed or they are still operational but via a reduced work force. This may have an effect on how to progress matters.

[Photega]

Even if it is relatively recently that a new company has taken over then they should have a grievance policy in place even if as a fall back they adhere to the ACAS guidelines. I suggest that you formally write to them asking for a copy of the grievance procedure, explain that you have already asked for this information and give details of when and to whom but confirm you have not received a response and request that you are provided a response in 5 working days.

My only other thought about the situation is do you know whether the company is still operating as normal given the current situation businesses are facing? If not do you know how they are operating at the moment i.e. the company has stopped working and everyone is furloughed or they are still operational but via a reduced work force. This may have an effect on how to progress matters.

Thanks for response, yes the company is still operating as far as I can see as normal as it is in the private residential healthcare sector, we have not yet some 5 months on since the last takeover been given directions to the new company policies nor any relevant contact numbers for things such as the HR dept. I know from past experience that many of these central functions have now changed though no official notice on who now to contact other than to direct via your line manager which in this case is not viable and as I said previously a request to their line manger still awaits a response though I do know this manager is still communicating with others via email

[Photega]

I have an ongoing formal grievance against my manager and I have been told that during a "welfare call" with my manager following my absence due to work related stress I actually found the call anything but supportive but more worryingly whilst discussing this call with a colleague back at work they disclosed they had seen an email from a member of the admin staff to my manager telling her to arrange the call and that they would listen in to the call to take notes.
I was not informed there was anybody else on the line at the time of the call and given the call was meant to be regarding my welfare relating to my PTSD and the stress at work which had led to my being signed off by my doctor
If I raise this point as a grievance on the grounds of not being informed and that I found it upsetting to find a member of the admin staff, Not even HR had listened in to that call, taking notes makes me more concerned why would they need to take detailed notes and furthermore if I do raise it will I be forced to disclose the name of the person who told me about the call being listened into?
I should say that the colleague who had seen this was so shocked and as well as a collegue I count them as a close personal friend who have confided in so they took a photo of the screen showing this email so I have proof of this, when raising this in the first instance should I disclose I have this photo showing the email or just raise the issue and see how it is responded to?.

[ULA]

Hi @ Photega, I have merged your latest thread with your previous one from April as they seem to be related.

As previously asked in post #4 above, given that it appears you have a number of issues with your employer at the moment it would really help us if you post on one thread. Even if there are multiple issues we need to provide relevant advice based on an understanding of the whole situation and this is easier to read in one thread. Many thanks

I would say that the advice back in April was entirely relevant and it would be good to understand whether you have now mentioned this to your employer and if so how does that fit in with the issues raised in your other thread Employer Stopped Pay.

[Photega]

Hi @ Photega, I have merged your latest thread with your previous one from April as they seem to be related.

As previously asked in post #4 above, given that it appears you have a number of issues with your employer at the moment it would really help us if you post on one thread. Even if there are multiple issues we need to provide relevant advice based on an understanding of the whole situation and this is easier to read in one thread. Many thanks

I would say that the advice back in April was entirely relevant and it would be good to understand whether you have now mentioned this to your employer and if so how does that fit in with the issues raised in your other thread Employer Stopped Pay.

Apologies for the confusion caused, unfortunately I myself get confused as where I am upto with things a symptom of my health issues.
I have asked my employer about the justification for having others party to my Welfare Call which has gone unanswered the stopping of pay is I believe a response to the fact I have raised a formal grievance about the other issues including the issues around the welfare call as during the welfare call my manager did say they were paying me in full as my absence was work related and indeed for the first 2 months did so which leads me to the conclusion that the decision to remove the discretion to pay me in full is their response to me raising the grievance so how I proceed is what I am seeking to get advice on and given my issues relate to stress caused by work and specifically the breakdown in communication with my line manager I am coming to the conclusion that my continuing with the employer due to pressure this is having on my mental health is no longer viable

[ULA]

No worries, I completely understand and hopefully it will make it easier for both of us to use this thread from now on.

It would be really helpful to get a summary of what has happened from looking at previous threads:

You have been off work since the early part of March with work related stress.
You had a fall at work that exacerbated a previous injury and following a visit to OH recommendations were made but not then followed through by your employer.
It appears that you did raise a grievance as I suggested about the treatment you are getting from your line manager but there has been no outcome as yet.
There is also the issue of the welfare call during which a person was taking notes which you were not notified of. You have tried to raise this as a grievance as well, however you do not know if this is being dealt with separately or in conjunction with the other grievance.
You pay has also now stopped.

Were you given any indication in the welfare call how long they would continue to pay you in full whilst you were absent? Does your company have a sick pay policy if so what does it say about company sick pay?

Is this, albeit brief a summary of what has happened? Answers to the questions I raised on the sickness pay would be useful as well. Many thanks

[Photega]

No worries, I completely understand and hopefully it will make it easier for both of us to use this thread from now on.

It would be really helpful to get a summary of what has happened from looking at previous threads:

You have been off work since the early part of March with work related stress.
You had a fall at work that exacerbated a previous injury and following a visit to OH recommendations were made but not then followed through by your employer.
It appears that you did raise a grievance as I suggested about the treatment you are getting from your line manager but there has been no outcome as yet.
There is also the issue of the welfare call during which a person was taking notes which you were not notified of. You have tried to raise this as a grievance as well, however you do not know if this is being dealt with separately or in conjunction with the other grievance.
You pay has also now stopped.

Were you given any indication in the welfare call how long they would continue to pay you in full whilst you were absent? Does your company have a sick pay policy if so what does it say about company sick pay?

Is this, albeit brief a summary of what has happened? Answers to the questions I raised on the sickness pay would be useful as well. Many thanks

Hi
Yes that is a good summary, I would add that the OH report also touched on my PTSD and pointed my employer to the fact to be aware of the need to be allowed to take breaks and downtime and pointed that as this had been a long standing issue would mean I have protected provision in regards of the Equalities act and getting my line manager to even discuss the OH report only came after 2 months of me chasing it up and was met with a level of disdain so this was only finally discussed 3 weeks before I ended up having to go off with Work related stress.
It was indicated to me that the pay would continue in full ad infinitum on the basis that my absence was due to work related issues.
Though there has been a video investigation meeting with regards to my grievance now they are dragging their heels in addressing this and refusing to give a timescale when this would be dealt with
I should point out that I have as a means to returning to work offered to work remotely as indeed we are being directed to by the government where at all possible, this I pointed out was a means to being a reasonable adjustment as part of a phased return to working, the response to this was for my manager to then send a colleague away to get 3 days of training and increase in permissions to carry out my job all of which just served to heighten my anxiety and breakdown the working relationship with my line manager
Thank you for your understanding and support on this matter.

[ULA]

When was the last time you had contact from your employer and what did they say.

I am thinking through the next course of action that would be worth you taking, which may be some written correspondence which sets out in summary like I have done in #11 with a bit more succinct but relevant detail about what has gone on. This could then end with a summary paragraph about feeling unsupported, reasonable adjustments as recommended by OH not being implemented, time taken to deal with grievance, personal matters being disclosed without agreement and that this is a breach in the duty of trust and confidence that you have in your employer. Explain that you view this matter seriously and what is the company proposing to do in response.

Happy for you to draft something and post it here for me to review.

[Photega]

When was the last time you had contact from your employer and what did they say.

I am thinking through the next course of action that would be worth you taking, which may be some written correspondence which sets out in summary like I have done in #11 with a bit more succinct but relevant detail about what has gone on. This could then end with a summary paragraph about feeling unsupported, reasonable adjustments as recommended by OH not being implemented, time taken to deal with grievance, personal matters being disclosed without agreement and that this is a breach in the duty of trust and confidence that you have in your employer. Explain that you view this matter seriously and what is the company proposing to do in response.

Happy for you to draft something and post it here for me to review.

I have already submitted a written grievance, it was following this that video meeting was arranged and whilst they said they need to investigate my allegations but they seem to be dragging their feet on completing their investigation and issues such as the change in pay status and then to find out the Welfare call was recorded have come to my attention, I have asked them to add these further factors to my grievance, when addressing the change from paying me in full to SSP I pointed out that I felt this change was in response to me raising the original grievance and today they now claim it was an administrative error due to workload which unfortunately seems highly unlikely given there is another colleague also off with Work Related Stress who has been off longer than myself whose pay was not changed to SSP but they have not raised a formal grievance.
I have from speaking to another colleague found that there is much talk and speculation about my health situation going around and feel somewhat embarrassed and the thought of going into work given the close contact I have with my colleague now fills me with dread and only serves to raise my anxiety levels

[ULA]

I am not suggesting that you raise a grievance as I know you have already raised these. What I was suggesting is that you set out a positioning statement as to how the situation has developed and the effect it has had on your health and well being in order the company now moves to a position where they are working to resolve things for you.