Respondents Lawyers Refusing to Supply Documents

[UC989]

Hello Everybody,

I’m new here. Hello!

I started an Employment Tribunal and I’ve run into a few difficulties with the respondents lawyers. Hopefully somebody can help. If this is in the wrong form. Mod’s please transfer.

My apologies for being so vague. This is an open forum and I wouldn’t want this to be linked to my case. From the start they have refused to forward requested documents. Not complied with court ordered, orders. Such as cc’ing me in on communication with the court, sending documents to the court but not to me. I have 2-3 complaints to the court about this.

I have requested a number of documents. What I received was basically useless. The documents were based upon other documentation. I have requested that documentation behind that but my requests have been ignored. The detail in this case is critical to my claim. As an example to explain what you are no doubt thinking, what the hell is this bloke going on about! Please accept this as it is. A very basic example of something similar.

A court case depends upon whether a 23 year old man (claimant) was insured to drive a company vehicle. The company (respondent) supplies an insurance certificate. The claimant requests the details of the insurance. The respondent says there is no other relevant documentation to the case. Obviously this is complete rubbish. All insurance is under written and the devil is in the detail. The case goes to court. The judge rules upon the facts in front of him and sides with the respondent. But had the claimant had access to the policy detail he would have learnt that the companies insurance only covers people over 25 years of age. Had the court known that fact the out come of the case would have been different.

How do I either make the respondent give me information they know to exist. Or if they won’t inform the court that I have requested the information but it has been refused. So that when I’m at the tribunal the respondent can’t say I haven’t asked for it and my only argument is that I have.

Hopefully that makes sense and somebody can help?

[Amethyst]

If there are specific documents required which have not been disclosed but you are aware of their existence and can convince the court they are a necessary part of your case you can make an application for specific disclosure ( basically write to the Judge asking for a case management order for disclosure of the documents ). You'd need to show the Judge that you have requested the documents and been refused ( or ignored after having giving a specific deadline for response ) and demonstrate that the document is necessary for a fair trial. If it is as clear cut as your example then it shouldn't be an issue.

It does sound like you are a way into the case - have you already had disclosure and this is further disclosure you need as theirs was lacking ?

I'll move your thread to the Employment forum anyway and tag Ula who might be able to help further.

[ULA]

So, it sounds like you are well into the ET process but it would be helpful to know that is the case.

Do you have a Case Management Order from the Tribunal?

Has there been an order from the Tribunal in regard to disclosure? If the tribunal simply makes an order for disclosure, this means 'standard disclosure', although it may also make orders for further specific disclosure. A party is only required to disclose documents in its control, and this means:

• documents that have at any stage been in its possession

• documents which it has had the right to have possession of

• documents which it has had the right to inspect or take copies of

Do the documents you suspect have not been provided meet the criteria above?

I suggest you write again, providing the details of the specific documents you want for disclosure, give them a deadline of say 14 days in which to provide them and state that if they are not provided you will be writing to the tribunal requesting an order for them to do so.

If this does not yield anything from the Respondent then you need to write to the tribunal requesting an order for specific disclosure on these documents that you believe have been left out and are material to the case, explain that you have requested them, provide copies of your correspondence to the Respondent and that they have not been forthcoming.

Hope that helps

[UC989]

Thank you for your response. My apologies for starting the thread in the wrong forum.

The deadline for compiling the final hearing bundle has just passed. I haven’t agreed to anything in the bundle. The respondents lawyers are definitely (I’ll try to be polite) using their knowledge and the lack of mine to their advantage. There’s playing the game and there’s taking the mick!

We have already had a CMD. Can I request another one? I’m assuming that I state that I am not willing to agree to their final hearing bundle and give my reason (lack of disclosure) why and it is OK to do that?

[ULA]

When was the deadline for compiling the final hearing bundle and when did you request the document from the Respondent?

[UC989]

The deadline has past in the last couple of days. I requested the documents around 2-3 weeks ago.

[ULA]

So from that I presume that the ET hearing is not too far away. You have now received the hearing bundle and I presume that having looked through it the documents requested 2-3 weeks ago have not been included?

I would suggest that you write to the Respondent requesting as to why the documents you requested 2-3 weeks ago have not been included in the Bundle if that is the case. It may also be worth sending this correspondence together with your previous request to the Tribunal and enquire as to whether they can do anything to support you getting these documents.

[UC989]

The tribunal date is still nearly 6 months away. But the date for agreeing what documenst are to be included is now. The respondent is trying to get me to agree to the trial bundle without the documents I have requested. They just keep saying there are no other relevant documents.

The case was accepted on health and safety grounds. I was sacked for refusing to work in an unsafe way. Part of that was asking for written proof that I was insured to do something because I had good reason to believe I wasn't. There had been a near fatal accident which heightened my concerns. The company basically has no health and safety policy. Rightly or wrongly I think it is important to the case to prove that I wasn't insured and there is no health and safety policy in place.

I've been given two pieces of paper clearly just copied off the internet with no relation to the company. Those documents have no substance and refer to other documentation which is where the detail of their alleged health and policy actually is. Risk assessments, training records etc. I know these probably don't exist. I want to be able to prove to the court at the tribunal that I have requested them and if no documents are supplied it is because they don’t exist. As the situation is at the minute I’m afraid I won’t be able to prove that at the tribunal.

They have also given me a copy of their insurance certificate but it is meaningless without the policy details. Which they are refusing to give to me. We all know insurance is subject to conditions. They must have a copy or access to a copy. I’m confident that the policy detail would prove that I wasn’t insured.

My plan is a witness to prove the meeting where I was sacked was about health and safety (they are obviously denying it was the reason). Then secondly that I wasn't insured and that their health and safety policy is basically non existent. So I was right to raise my concerns and as such I was unfairly sacked.

[ULA]

Ok so at the moment you are trying to agree the content of the bundle i.e. what documents each side will disclose? What came out of the CMD in terms of disclosure of documents?

I think your best course of action would be to write to the Respondent along the lines of thank you for the list of documents that will form your disclosure for inclusion in the hearing bundle however the following documents and then list them, do not appear to be included and I request that they form part of the disclosure, please can you confirm within the next 14 days that they will form part of the bundle. As you will note from previous correspondence and include the date of the letter I have previously asked for these documents to be disclosed. In the event that these documents do not form part of your disclosure I will be applying to the Tribunal for an order for them to be disclosed.

I suggest that you get that to them as soon as possible

[UC989]

Yes. We are in the process of agreeing the content of the bundle. I've just checked the CMD regarding disclosure. It doesn't say much at all and nothing specific. Other than what I assume would be the standard, you must send documents if requested to do so, continuing disclosure obligation etc. The CMD was requested to extend the tribunal from one day due to it's complexity.

I was very short on time and I have already written to the respondent. I did it basically word for word as you described. Thankfully. I've already had a reply again refusing to include documents.

[ULA]

Did they provide any reason for refusing to include the documents as part of the content of the bundle? Was it for any of the following reasons:

• the documents have not at any stage been in their possession

• they are documents which the Respondent does not have the right to have possession of

• they are documents which the Respondent has not had the right to inspect or take copies of

Dependent on their reason for refusal then you may be able to make an application to the Tribunal to request whether they will consider making an order for the Respondent to disclose the documents. I suggest you detail a list of the documents that have been part of your request to the Respondents, include copies of the correspondence you have send on both occasions together with a copy of the responses you have received to the requests. I would also suggest you explain briefly the reason why you believe disclosure of the document is relevant to the case.

You should also let the Respondents know that you are making the application, the easiest way would be to send them a copy of your letter to the Tribunal.

[UC989]

They didn’t use any of those reasons. The reason given, as always was there are no other relevant documents. Or a document I have asked to be included isn’t relevant to the case.

I don’t think they are going to disclose the majority if not all of my requested documents. I’'m going to have to apply to the court after the deadline i've given them. I’'m hoping a judge will see what is going on and have little patience with it because it is clearly a waste of the courts time.

Thank you for all your help and I’'ll update when I know more.

[ULA]

Please do come back and let us know how you get on. Best of luck

[UC989]

It's been a while! The case eventually got to court around a year ago after being cancelled three times. I lost which wasn't much of a suprise.

For anybody who reads this and is thinking of doing the same. My take on it is this. You need undeniable written documentation to win. If the judge could have seen the facts as they were on the day I was sacked I would have won. Without doubt. But that's not the reality of the situation. My case was basically he said, she said. I was in court on my own against the owner, his solicitor and two supporting witnesses. Presented with that who would you believe?

Without documentation it's your word against theirs. There will always be someone in the company who's prepared to lie to get in the good books of the boss. As was the case with me.

I don't regret it. A large part of the reason I went forward was in the hope that the employees still there would be treated a bit better because the way they're treated really is shocking. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. But the owner did complain about how much I had cost him. So hopefully next time he will think twice. I learnt a lot along the way. Some of which has turned out to be very valuable to me. This alone was worth it for me.

This is all my opinion of course. If you're reading this and going forward yourself I wish you all the best and a big thank you for all the help and advice I received. Of which the advice which resonated the most was concentrate on the facts of the case. Not emotions.

[ULA]

Thank you for coming back to your original thread to update us.

I am so sorry to hear that you lost your case but thank you for being prepared to share your experience and provide useful observations that other LegalBeagles users, going through an Employment Tribuanl as a litigant in person, can make use of.

As you say Judges are making their decisions on the available documentation, facts of the case and legal arguments.

Wish you all the best.