Equal Pay??

[james_law]

Cant really find much on the internet regarding this. I'll do the scenario like it was me working.

I work for one of the big four accountancy companies and we have just had a review regarding pay for next year. I got X amount however, two colleagues who do exactly the same job and have the same job title received a bigger pay increase. The reason for the difference in pay is because people above us have meetings and they rate you and then you are put into bandings.

So the ratings are based on jobs etc but all jobs are different some small some very big. Exam results however there is not different pass levels just one pass, so a pass at say 50 is still the same as a pass at 100. Wouldnt it be better to give bonuses as an incentive to do well in exams.

Anyway is there potentially say a possible equal pay claim ?? any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[mariefab]

Equal pay claims are about men and women being paid the same amount for doing the same or similar jobs.
They're effectively sex discrimination claims.

[james_law]

Equal pay claims are about men and women being paid the same amount for doing the same or similar jobs.
They're effectively sex discrimination claims.

You need to go read up on this because if you think equal pay is all about ''just gender'' then your wrong. Equal pay is about people in the same workplace doing a job that is the same, broadly the same or of equal value. Gender is just a branch of this. If you are going to comment on peoples' posts at least make it factually correct and of some help.

[mariefab]

OK, I'll try google.

[mariefab]

Damn! Google thinks it's about sex too. It says that the Equal Pay Act prohibited less favourable treatment between men and women in terms of pay and suchlike and that it has been mostly superceded by the sex equality chapter of the Equality Act.

How am I supposed to mend my ways if the internet is full of wrong information?

Ooo! I know, I'll check out the case law...

[Amethyst]

James - I don't think that attitude is particularly helpful when people are trying to assist you.

Generally equal pay is a gender/sex issue. Employers are at liberty to agree to pay different employees at different rates of pay for doing the same job, as long as they do not breach equality laws ( ie not because of gender, ethnicity, disability etc ) There may be differences in skills, competency, experience qualifications, length of service, or even as simple as one employee having better negotiation skills.

Have you asked your employer where you differ from your colleagues so that you didn't get the same increase ?

You mention Google - maybe if you can post a couple of links ( eg to Unison as they discuss the issue a fair bit ) to where you've found the information that you think gives you the argument of equal pay between colleagues without any discrimination type issues it might help - we're all continually learning here xxx

[mariefab]

Well that was a waste of time.
The Employment Appeal Tribunal, Court of Appeal, House of Lords and Supreme Court all seem to think it's a sex issue too.
They even use the same Acts of Parliament as Google suggested in their judgments.

P.S. Amethyst, it was I who mentioned Google.

[Amethyst]

Oh yes, so it was....apologies James... I won't ask you to show what you've found that supports this then...

You need to go read up on this because if you think equal pay is all about ''just gender'' then your wrong. Equal pay is about people in the same workplace doing a job that is the same, broadly the same or of equal value. Gender is just a branch of this.

From what James has said about the process of deciding pay increases is a kind of a performance / pay review.

The reason for the difference in pay is because people above us have meetings and they rate you and then you are put into bandings.

I wonder if the bandings are a range of salaries - like in public services - so a band might include people in the same job who earn the bottom of the band and others who receive the top of the band ?

[james_law]

James - I don't think that attitude is particularly helpful when people are trying to assist you.

Generally equal pay is a gender/sex issue. Employers are at liberty to agree to pay different employees at different rates of pay for doing the same job, as long as they do not breach equality laws ( ie not because of gender, ethnicity, disability etc ) There may be differences in skills, competency, experience qualifications, length of service, or even as simple as one employee having better negotiation skills.

Have you asked your employer where you differ from your colleagues so that you didn't get the same increase ?

You mention Google - maybe if you can post a couple of links ( eg to Unison as they discuss the issue a fair bit ) to where you've found the information that you think gives you the argument of equal pay between colleagues without any discrimination type issues it might help - we're all continually learning here xxx

I really don't have an attitude. I was merely pointing out the obvious.

Ive arranged a meeting to discuss how we are different and how we are banded - like what factors.

Ive not mentioned anywhere that there is an argument of equal pay between colleagues without any discrimination, it all boils down to discrimination. As you have said generally equal pay is a gender/sex issue.

[wales01man]

Please come back and let the other posters know the outcome

[james_law]

Well that was a waste of time.
The Employment Appeal Tribunal, Court of Appeal, House of Lords and Supreme Court all seem to think it's a sex issue too.
They even use the same Acts of Parliament as Google suggested in their judgments.

P.S. Amethyst, it was I who mentioned Google.

I'm not saying its not about gender because it is, but thats not all its about. Equal pay claims relate to all individuals in a work place. So your telling me then if 2 men in the same work place doing the same job, one was paid more, would not have a claim for equal pay???

[james_law]

Please come back and let the other posters know the outcome

the outcome of what??

I've not received any advice to do anything with yet, its just been a slanging match about how equal pay is all about the gender pay gap.

[mariefab]

I believe that Walesman refers to the outcome of your meeting.

So your telling me then if 2 men in the same work place doing the same job, one was paid more, would not have a claim for equal pay???

Yes. That's exactly what I'm telling you.

An employer can have 100 men doing exactly the same job and it will be lawful for every one of them to be paid a different amount as long as they pay at least the minimum wage and the reason for difference isn't another protected characteristic.

[james_law]

The ratings are subjective so its just how the manager/assistant manager think you are doing. Each job is different i.e workload/size/how many people are with you. There are so many inconsistent factors when determining this.

Looking at what mariefab said and a little bit more digging, it looks like other than asking for a payrise as i feel im worth more, there is nothing I can do. As unfair as i see it, its not illegal.