Wages Over Payment Query

[grimbell]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Just to let you know that after receiving this months wage slip with yet more mistakes on it and then them sending it to the wrong account leaving me with no money I resigned as the stress was really getting to me.

Have got some bank work starting next week and signed with an agency.
Not sure if they will chase for the overpayment or not but I did put in my resignation letter that I had to seek other employment as they had put me in debt.

[Amethyst]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

(((((((((((((((((((((((hug))))))))))))))))))))

Sounds like they need a new payroll department.

[Ragdog]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

[quote=grimbell;98605]hi Glenn

The cab specialist said that the argument of estoppel is extremely difficult to prove and there have been recent cases where it has failed so he advised not to try it.

If I could prove i had taken out some form of credit based on my earnings plus overtime I might of stood a chance but I didn't so that seems to be that.
quote]


The CAB specialist has given you good advice, for a change. Your company can request this money back, just because you spent it and don't have it anymore is not an arguement in the eyes if the law unfortunately. They shouldn't have just docked your pay though, this should have been a process of negotiation.

Are you sure you didn't take out any HP or loans/credit card debt in the past 18 months? If so, you could argue that you didn't know there was a mistake, and thought you could afford your new car/sofa/kitchen or whatever. If not, you could maybe ask someone to draw up an agreement that they lent you a substantial amount of money, which at the time you thought you could pay back because you were not aware you were being overpaid, but won't be able to if you have to pay back Ł50 per month on top of the unexpected reduction in your income. Where there's a will, there's a way.

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine who works in a government department, only she had been overpaid for about 5 years. She was able to produce a bank loan that she got for a new car, and said that to take this money back now would leave her and her family in severe financial diffilcuties. I drew up a full report of her income and expenditure to back this up, although at the end up they didn't ask for it. They backed off.

[grimbell]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Hi

I didn't take out anything (couldn't even if I had wanted too!).

I am in dire straights at the moment and need to get some money in which is why I left. I am hoping that the powers that be will write this off. If they do start chasing me for it I will write to the Chief Excec about it, he is a pretty straight forward guy and see what he says.

The HR dept should have put things in place about ot before the job was advertised in my view and payroll should have checked with them first before paying me.

I have had mistakes with my pay ever since Sept when all this came to light and to top it off some t*at keyed in the wrong account no for last pay run so I have not been paid for Jan yet!

I loved my job and am really upset about leaving but at the end of the day I've got to pay my bills.

[scoobydoo]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

It may be legally right they can reclaim the monies but morally It is wrong. If they were confused enough to make such an error how on earth were you supposed to know it was incorrect. I hope they do write it off .

[Glenn UK]

The CAB specialist has given you good advice, for a change. Your company can request this money back, just because you spent it and don't have it anymore is not an argument in the eyes if the law unfortunately.

Are you sure?

if the person spending the money had every right to believe they were entitled to it then the defence of change of position is available to them i believe?

This is not merely a case of getting extra money as a one off, as i understand the claim the overpayment's were consistent from the start of employment till now.

Just curious as to why you are so certain?

Have they said anything about masking deduction's from your final paycheck?

Glenn

Glenn

[grimbell]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Hi

I was told that had I taken out some form of credit whilst being overpaid then I would have had an argument because asking for the money back would have left me in a worse state than before but by simply spending it was not enough.

I still haven't had January's pay......waiting for a check. I did write to explain that they had deducted the wrong amount in tax but have not had a reply. I intend contacting them on Monday to chase this up.

[Glenn UK]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Grimbell

Im not a lawyer but i dont see that taking out credit is necessary for you to have been worse off by them reclaiming their money.

The key issue is whether you could have known you werent entitled to the moneny in my view.

Without this it would not matter if you had taken credit out or not as you would have effecitvleyt been committing theft so i thik this is the key issue.

However, ultimately i am not trying to argue for the sake of it, my only thought is that you dont get stuffed up because of their mistake and your innocence in this.

Glenn

Given ty

[grimbell]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Thanks Glenn

I have left now and so far there has been no mention of the overpayment. My ex-line manager phoned me last night and he intends fighting my corner if it is raised.

So for now I intend not to think about it and hopefully it will not be pursued.

The cab expert that I saw was on my side but he said that the courts had acted against the argument of estoppel recently and that is why he said it was unlikely to be successful unless I had exceptional proof that the overpayment had changed my position despite it being a mistake on the employers part (as they had stated) and despite me not being able to tell it was wrong.

[Luminol]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Dont know if this is still ongoing but found this on Worksmart:

I have been told I was overpaid. Can my employer deduct money from my wages without my agreement?

The Employment Rights Act allows an employer to recover overpayment of wages, which includes expenses and other allowances.
Such a deduction from wages would, therefore be lawful, although the Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled, in one case, that it only applies to the last pay period.
However there may be occasions where the overpayment, was the result of an 'error of law', rather than an 'error of fact'. In other words the overpayment is the result of a misinterpretation of some regulation rather than a simple clerical error.
Where the worker genuinely believed he or she was entitled to the overpayment and had spent the money in good faith a civil court might decide that the employer was not entitled to recover.


Might help you

[grimbell]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

hi
Thanks for that.
I received a letter on the same day as my P45 asking for full repayment of the money.
I then wrote to the chief executive and explained everything and he has now initiated a full investigation so I am waiting for the result of this.

[old_andrew]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Hi its been a while since your last post, any news

Regards

Andy

[grimbell]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Hi

I wrote a letter to CEO and he then got a minion to investigate.

The reply I got basically said they had done no wrong and it was me who was wrong for claiming extra hours wrongly.
I had pointed out that I had not received a contract and so was unable to know what the contract stated about working extra and the reply was that if i wanted a copy I should have phoned HR and asked for it!
This was in mid March and I have not heard anything else (yet!) and as I can't afford to repay I am leaving it until they contact me. When they do I will try to get the advice of an employment solicitor but at the moment I have so much to pay out it is another debt on the list.

[Ragdog]

Re: Wages Over Payment Query

Hi, I have been off here for a while, just wondering if this was sorted out? Unfortunately in this case the onus is on the wronged party to show that she used the extra money to take out a long term debt, just spending the extra when she had it is not an arguement otherwise her employers could successfully argue that she could pay it back at an amount she would afford.

Unfortunately the law is a very blunt instrument and isn't always fair.