Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

[roygoodbeat]

Hi. Judt needed some advice. I currently work in the care industry. At our place we do sleep ins as our clients need 24 hour care.

A letter was written complaining that in light of recent rulings regarding sleep in pay, the employer was underpaying us under the national minimum wage. This was discussed in our staff meeting with all the staff names typed on it. The area manager wanted to know who sent it. They were very dismissive of the letter. The area manager commented on the poor way it was written. They wrote directly to the individual concerned saying they would look into it. As per company procedure, they failed to respond within the 10 working days.

In fear of being singled out and the effects it could have, an anonmynus letter was sent to the company. It stated that they had broken the law by not paying the minimum wage. It also said we should have been paid the full amount from the end of July. It requested that a response had to be made in 14 days on how they were going to address the back pay. It also expressed concerns of what may happen to the sleep ins and how it could affect our residents.

Whilst not everyone saw the letter before it was sent, then the manager has shown the staff sinse. Whilst some did not give their consent, all agree, including the manager that the contents were right.

The only response that we have had from the company is:

They have asked staff if they saw the letter and gave their consent. In fear of reprisals, especially since the first letter, all staff have been made to sign this.

Secondly the company want to know who it is from, even though everyone agrees with the contents but fear for their jobs.

Wanted some advice on this as we feel they are bullying us to find out, and not address the real issue. Some of us feel that as most of our staff are from abroad, the company is taking advantage of this.

Luckily our manager is brillant but their hands are tied. Its down to our head office.

[slainte caragh]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

BUMP **No response**

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Tagging [MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION] [MENTION=26290]mariefab[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION]

[ULA]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

Agree with you that the company are missing the point my thoughts are that they are trying to find out how many staff are raising this as an issue to work out the size of the problem they are facing.

In the original letter was it more of an informal tone or did it indicate that it was a formal grievance?

Are any of you in a union as this would be something that they could raise as an issue on your behalf which would give a "buffer" to you and your colleagues.

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

Further to my recent post, I need some advice on our employer.

Some of us wrote to the employer anonymously with our concerns over the monies owed to us prior to the 27^th July 2017, the monies due since then and proposed changes to our sleep-in arrangements. We wrote this as we feared our jobs if HR found out.

1) The company tried to find out who wrote the letter. They got all the staff to sign if they knew anything about the letter and did they give authorisation. Most of us signed we did not in order to protect our identities, but we all signed “but we agree with the contents”. We all felt the company was more focused on who wrote it, rather than address the issues.
2) Over the last few days, they have called us all in individually after the company had an emergency manager meeting. We were all told verbally that the company has until March 2019 to pay. In addition, they said that they would be waiting for an appeal due in March over sleep in pay. From what we have understood, the ruling regarding back dated pay by the inland revenue only applies to pay owed up to the 27^th July 2017. Normal enforcement by HMRC applies for pay after this date. A number of care companies already pay the correct amount, but the company still only pay Ł35 for a 9.5/ 10 hour sleep in. We are often up during the night and rarely get any extra.
3) We were all told verbally that the company may have to consider closures if this is pursued. We all felt that this was delivered in a threatening manner.
4) In terms of moving forward, they have proposed that our sleep ins will change to on call. We were told we could leave the premises at night and come back, but we must be able to return to the premises within 10 minutes (Nobody lives within 10 minutes). It would be monitored and anyone arriving later will have their contracts terminated. In addition, we asked if all the staff leave the premises, what would happen. We were told someone would have to stay and cover. In other words, we all feel they are trying to avoid their legal obligations and have shown no interest in any ideas or other ways that can address this issue. Most of us feel that the company is trying to take advantage of some of our foreign workers who are too afraid to upset the company. This was given verbally and they wanted us to sign that we had a supervision over this issue.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Amethyst]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

Recent policy changes on the arrears ( just for info)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...ay-for-workers
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._for_final.pdf

The SCCS was launched on 1 November 2017 and will end on 31 March 2019, by
which time all providers must have shown that they have repaid their arrears relating to
sleeping time. Nothing in the scheme prevents individual workers taking their own
legal action (whether in the Employment Tribunal or Court) to recover arrears owing to
them. They should seek legal advice before doing so.

So yes, "All arrears [[[ pre July 2017 ]]] will have to be paid by 31 March 2019 at the latest. " ( if they opted in to the scheme )

Changing from Sleep In to 'on call' sounds like, as you say, a way of trying to avoid having to pay the minimum wage correctly - I don't think it would work as it is based on how free you are to live your life while on call ( and having to return within 10 minutes is not living your life - I'm sure I remember a report within 10 minutes case being ruled your way ) Is there also a rule about how many staff are on premises at any one time that would be being broken ?

What appeal are they waiting for ? I can't see that Focus/frudd etc is being appealed further - though wouldn't surprise if it was - ( appeal tribunal https://assets.publishing.service.go...0244_16_DM.pdf )

This one relies on Focus and is quite interesting https://assets.publishing.service.go...0256_16_BA.pdf

( can't find the 10 minutes one, I might be thinking of a New Zealand case as that's all I can find now - unless anyone else can remember it ?)

"This was given verbally and they wanted us to sign that we had a supervision over this issue." - so nothing written ? what did employees sign exactly ?

[MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION]

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

Recent policy changes on the arrears ( just for info)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...ay-for-workers
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._for_final.pdf



So yes, "All arrears [[[ pre July 2017 ]]] will have to be paid by 31 March 2019 at the latest. " ( if they opted in to the scheme )

Changing from Sleep In to 'on call' sounds like, as you say, a way of trying to avoid having to pay the minimum wage correctly - I don't think it would work as it is based on how free you are to live your life while on call ( and having to return within 10 minutes is not living your life - I'm sure I remember a report within 10 minutes case being ruled your way ) Is there also a rule about how many staff are on premises at any one time that would be being broken ?

What appeal are they waiting for ? I can't see that Focus/frudd etc is being appealed further - though wouldn't surprise if it was - ( appeal tribunal https://assets.publishing.service.go...0244_16_DM.pdf )

This one relies on Focus and is quite interesting https://assets.publishing.service.go...0256_16_BA.pdf

( can't find the 10 minutes one, I might be thinking of a New Zealand case as that's all I can find now - unless anyone else can remember it ?)

"This was given verbally and they wanted us to sign that we had a supervision over this issue." - so nothing written ? what did employees sign exactly ?

[MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION]

I may be wrong but Mencap are appealing in March.

At the moment we have one waking tonight who cannot leave their resident. There are 4 sleep ins. One of our residents is non verbal, another two can have behaviours that can challenge. Safely, at least two of the four must stay on the premises.

[Amethyst]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

I'm not sure if they are actually appealing the ruling, more appealing to government about the back payments - probably hence the extension again - see https://www.mencap.org.uk/get-involv...psleepincrisis

That should not affect things going forward though - only the pre July'17 arrears payments.

This 'can leave the premises'...'must be back in 10 minutes' thing really hasn't been thought through and seems to be a knee jerk reaction - have they brought the new policy in already?

Also you said "We are often up during the night and rarely get any extra." --- are you meant to be paid for individual instances of ''work'' during the sleep-in at all ? or do you mean overtime type extra ?

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

I'm not sure if they are actually appealing the ruling, more appealing to government about the back payments - probably hence the extension again - see https://www.mencap.org.uk/get-involv...psleepincrisis

That should not affect things going forward though - only the pre July'17 arrears payments.

This 'can leave the premises'...'must be back in 10 minutes' thing really hasn't been thought through and seems to be a knee jerk reaction - have they brought the new policy in already?

Only through a supervision. Meant to start from the 1st December. No amendment to contract letter yet.

[roygoodbeat]

Re: Complaint to employer. Breaking the national minimum wage

Only through a supervision. Meant to start from the 1st December. No amendment to contract letter yet.

Hi. Further to my recent posts, there was a notice in the office stating that after consulting with an employment solictor and acas, they have implemented the change. Theyhavenot issued an amendment to our contract, just gone ahead with it.