Train2game

[lmlmlm]

City & Guilds have given me a link to prove that the course is accredited - for a while there I was beginning to think that it didn't exist at all:

https://register.ofqual.gov.uk/Searc...0to%20learners

I've found a mediation service nearby and I have been looking up things about small claims court and preparing myself to go down that route. I don't know if I have any chance of success - I thought I need to really think through my legal case/argument before completing the mediation letter and sending it but I'm hoping to have it done within a week or so.

I've sent a Subject Access Request to Train2game, I might do one for the credit service too.

[labradorpup2001]

It seems you've gone through exactly what I have with them. TIGA dropped out, the course material was way out of date and we were so close to finishing before TIGA was dropped and we had to begin again. Granted they gave us the choice to change, and made City and Guilds sound so inviting, but at the cost of starting all over again. Two years into a three years 'no deadline' course and you would only have until the end of the year to finish it. Definitely not fair.

[lmlmlm]

Yes the paranoid part of me feels that they like to keep it as vague as possible deliberately.

I also wonder why such an apparently maliciously designed organisation offered to send out all of the course material to me when I finished - is it so that they can claim that I have affirmed the contract if they want to later on?

I have sent an e-mail to City & Guilds asking about the courses that Train2game offer through them. I have also found part of my course material that states:

'This course leads to a City & Guilds Accredited Qualification
You may achieve the following qualifications depending on the Units you achieve:
City & Guilds level 6 Diploma in Games Design for Computer Gaming (Industry Specific)
TIGA Diploma in Games Design'

(It's a booklet dated 2012, so before TIGA severed ties)

I have been looking into misrepresentation and I'm concerned that I have left it so long as Which? state you should act as soon as possible.

The complaint that I sent in 2015/2016 did accuse them of aggressive sales and mention some sales acts - I think that I was going by the Rob Ager Skillstrain video.

[Amethyst]

Reading through some of the course docs ( via the wayback archive https://web.archive.org/web/20171203...-and-animator/ ), it doesn't actually state what qualification you receive at the end.... seems extremely vague and there isn't actually any specific of what you are studying towards.

On the attached documents though it does say
"THIS COURSE LEADS TO A CITY & GUILDS ACCREDITED QUALIFICATION"
Just not which one or at what level etc.

[Amethyst]

Cool. Well firstly is to find out if the study would actually lead to the qualification you were told it would and if continuing would actually result in your obtaining the qualification ( at the relevant level - equivalent to Masters Degree? level 6/7 ? ).

So I'd have a chat with C&G and find out what's what and then you can go from there.

Does your paperwork actually list the exact qualifications you'd end up with ?

( The course work, I believe, assists you in building a portfolio so it isn't time wasted and you may be able to use that portfolio to move to a different course at college etc later if you decide you want to proceed, but you need the actual info to form your complaint fully to T2G and C&G. )

[lmlmlm]

Ughhh. Yes it's the same people ( https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07900082 )

Was your finance through CF4TS ?

Yes.

[Amethyst]

Yes, sorry I forgot to put it in, it's a very... um... 'interesting' website: https://www.benchmarkmediasolutions.co.uk/

'[They] are helping people'

'Don't be shy about [giving us more money]. It doesn't mean you're weak, it only means you're wise.'

Ughhh. Yes it's the same people ( https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07900082 )

Was your finance through CF4TS ?

[lmlmlm]

Sorry to ask more questions xxx

That's fine!

Thank you for the prompt response.

[Amethyst]

Maybe worth giving C&G a call and asking for the course code for the Level 6 qualification in Games Design they accredit through Train2Game and see what you can find out. Tell them you want to check the course information and syllabus etc as you are considering extending the course and want to check the qualifications you'd receive for completion - it may be a specifically designed course for T2G and not available on their website.

[lmlmlm]

Did they say that you could still have actually obtained the qualification despite not having been registered with them? Did you discuss the actual course you were undertaking and confirm the training provider was actually accredited by C&G ?

I'm not sure that I did. I think that I just approached them trying to make a complaint - ostensibly about misleading sales and then maybe refusing an extension with all these mitigating circumstances. When I found out that I couldn't do that I think I moved on to the next thing - i.e. Citizens Advice.

As mentioned I saw Train2game as a listed centre on the City and Guilds site, I remember that... and I don't know if there was a course listed on their qualifications then or not... but no I wasn't as logical as you lay it out when approaching them after I realised I couldn't actually lodge my complaint.

I remember talking to people about possibly gaining the qualification independent of Train2game but I think we were all worried about spending more money after having lost £5,000, and also, I felt too sick with anger and pain to actually stomach going through the books from Train2game. I'm only just barely managing to do that now.

[lmlmlm]

Can you tell us the company that 'sources excess training capacity' ?

Yes, sorry I forgot to put it in, it's a very... um... 'interesting' website: https://www.benchmarkmediasolutions.co.uk/

'[They] are helping people'

'Don't be shy about [giving us more money]. It doesn't mean you're weak, it only means you're wise.'

[lmlmlm]

Also, do you know the exact City & Guilds Qualification you were working towards? https://www.cityandguilds.com/qualif...prenticeships/

I'm a bit confused now... I can't find anything like it in that list you've linked to.

I remember it being listed as a level 6 City & Guilds qualification in Games Design on the train2game website, but now everything seems to link to their Facebook page which lists them without attached qualifications here: https://www.facebook.com/pg/Official...=page_internal

Train2game IS a City & Guilds training centre, listed on their website: https://www.cityandguilds.com/search...res&s=distance

[lmlmlm]

Have you discussed this part with them regards an extension ? ( I'm not saying that would be any kind of successful resolution but interested in their attitude to their 'students' having to redo part of the course due to the change over from TIGA to C&G ) Were you two years in to the course at that point ?

I have some paper work to track down but I don't believe that I did; I mentioned autism and my health, the personal issues outline above, and the fact that I was repeatedly told that there are no deadlines by their representative; I think sent a 2 page letter but I've misplaced it now I'll try and track it down - I think by the way they responded to that I already felt that they're being so unreasonable that it wouldn't make a difference and I was already at the point of wanting to outright complain.

I don't know if it is as simple as the change from TIGA to C&G.

I have a few booklets (from the new material) with both logos on and then the rest have coloured tape stuck over the TIGA logos (I think that the ones without tape on are the ones I got sent when they changed me over - around Jan 2015 (still before the TIGA press release I believe; which is 2015) - and put me back to the beginning and the rest are after they kicked me off the course 9 months or so later).

The paranoid part of me wonders if they several 'versions' of the course that they ask people if they want to 'update' to if they're getting too far into to course (and risking discovering how disappointing it is).

I don't know if you mean 2 years into the course timewise or content wise: timewise, I signed up late November 2012, and was given the 'new' material Jan 2015, so over two years - content wise it's a bit more difficult to say, I might be able to figure it out looking through automated emails, but I think that I was probably about halfway through the second book of the three that get sent to you individually (presumably so you can always have higher hopes that the NEXT part might meet your expectations... maybe that's also why they've started doing more smaller books? As it's more confusing... paranoia again? I haven't gone so far as checking how similar the content in the two versions is.

[Amethyst]

(I'd actually completed a significant portion, very quickly, and been reset to the beginning with 'improved' course material)

Have you discussed this part with them regards an extension ? ( I'm not saying that would be any kind of successful resolution but interested in their attitude to their 'students' having to redo part of the course due to the change over from TIGA to C&G ) Were you two years in to the course at that point ?

Can you tell us the company that 'sources excess training capacity' ?

Also, do you know the exact City & Guilds Qualification you were working towards? https://www.cityandguilds.com/qualif...prenticeships/

they couldn't pursue any complaint because I didn't have a student number so I'd never been registered with them.

Did they say that you could still have actually obtained the qualification despite not having been registered with them? Did you discuss the actual course you were undertaking and confirm the training provider was actually accredited by C&G ?

I guess I'm wondering if it seems as though this was an autism-related issue, to take the salesperson so literally like this?

No. If the salesman stated clearly there were no deadlines and you could study the course at your own pace, anyone would take that as read ( many of the issues raised on here about these courses are directly related to that misrepresentation by the salesman ) Your health issues may assist in evidencing that misrepresentation though if you do end up having to take it to court, as that was a primary part of your decision to take this course with the flexibility rather than say attend college full / part time.

Sorry to ask more questions xxx

[lmlmlm]

Wow that really is long! I'm sorry about that.

It just sort of comes out as one long block when I try to write about it.