Court threat ex landlord (commercial)

[forumdot]

Hi, hoping someone on here can help my mate, desperate is an understatement, he has typed out his problem below......thanks in advance

Hoping someone can help here, Im at my wits end!!! Had a dilapidation order from ex landlord 8 months after key was handed over. I have photographic and email proof that the property was in a bad state when I went in (he didn't own it then as the property was sold in 2020 at auction) and photographs from when I left showing it was pretty much the same as original photos. Basically I can prove that the majority of what they claim is fictitious. They have threatened to take me to the cleaners over this !!! They have insisted I get a surveyor in (which is going to cost thousands I haven't got) and say I also have to pay their surveyors fees for the dilapidation survey. Do I need to get the survey done even though I have proof? This is impacting my mental health so bad not to mention financially. My solicitor advises me to go ahead with the survey because of the huge amount they are trying to claim from me but between solicitors fees and surveyors etc it will break me financially. Any help appreciated, I dont know where to turn! There is a lot more to this story which I won't go in to at this time.

[atticus]

Your starting point has to be the lease. Understand exactly what you promised to do at the end of the lease term. Did you agree to return the property in the condition it was in at the start of your lease, or are you stuck with a commitment to hand it back repaired and redecorated to some higher standard?

If the former, are your photographs etc contained in a formal "schedule of condition"? Whatever the answer, they are your evidence of the standard to which the property was to be returned.

Generally, I would say to follow your solicitor's advice. After all, he has seen the documents and will have been given more information than you have given here.

But if you want, you can leave it to the landlord to sue you. He will have to prove his case. If the requirement in the lease is to hand back the premises in the condition in which you took them at the start of the lease, then you can show the court your evidence of that condition.

[forumdot]

Hi and thank you for your reply. He has taken a look through the lease and it says to restore to their former or proper condition?

[atticus]

If that is the case, it appears that your friend agreed that at the end of the lease he would put the premises back into a better condition than when he took on the lease. That may have been naive, or it may have been reflected in other favourable terms.

it may now be a case of examining the landlord's claims - whether the work required is all necessary, the costings etc. This is where a surveyor specialising in 'dilapidations' can help.

[forumdot]

Thanks again, here is what he has sent me...............
When I took the lease on I addressed the condition with the landlord, sent him photographs which he attached some to the lease. When my term was up I was handing the premises back, my landlord literally begged me to keep it on, he reduced the rent considerably (have emails and bank statements to prove this) because of the condition and I used it mainly for storage of my items. He sold it the following year when it was bought at auction without viewing or surveying. It is quite obvious from the dilapidation order that they hadn't a clue about the building, stating I had removed toilets that were never there (photos to prove) and a lot more. I just feel ive been stitched up big time here. I guess I have been quite naive as I ve never had to deal with anything like this before. I thank you for your advice.

[forumdot]

Thanks again ATTICUS, his reply..............

I had sent photographs to my Landlord at the time I went in there of the state the building was in, so he was aware as this property was very old and the Landlord isn't local, he attached some of them to my contract. When the lease was up he practically begged me to keep it on at an extremely reduced rate until further notice, which I did and have emails and bank statements to back it up. The property was sold around a year later at auction. nobody came to view or assess the property. So I am dealing with a new landlord from when I took the property on. It was around a year before the new landlord made contact with me disputing the rent and asking for back payment of the full rent not the reduced rate I had been paying, this is also still trying to be resolved. At this point I vacated the premises. Its clear from the dilapidation report that they had no knowledge of the building, As an example I have been billed for toilets they said I removed when I have photographs from me entering the premises which shows no toilets were in there. Im struggling both mentally and financially with this and feel Ive been made a scapegoat and unsure what steps I should take. Ive thought about contacting the landlord directly (Ive only dealt with his agent this far) to let him know of the evidence I have but not sure if this is the right path to go down either. Thank you for your input, I do appreciate it.

[forumdot]

ATTICUS. I have sent 2 replies which dont seem to appear on here so not sure if you have seen them? Maybe they were too long?

[forumdot]

If that is the case, it appears that your friend agreed that at the end of the lease he would put the premises back into a better condition than when he took on the lease. That may have been naive, or it may have been reflected in other favourable terms.

it may now be a case of examining the landlord's claims - whether the work required is all necessary, the costings etc. This is where a surveyor specialising in 'dilapidations' can help.

ATTICUS I have tried to reply twice in more detail but for some reason it isn't posting on here. I know you dont advise by private message but could I send you more info by PM and you answer me on here? Would that be possible at all?

[atticus]

Sorry, no PMs.

Maybe forum admin can help with your posts - tagging EXC

[EXC]

Yes it's our dodgy spam filter! I've reinstated posts numbers 5 & 6.

[atticus]

Thanks. I have read the two 'missing' posts. The OP's friend should consult a surveyor specialising in dilapidations. That surveyor should be able to consider the lease, the available evidence, whether the work is required and the costings.

What we have here is a case of a discrepancy between the wording of the lease and some other separate arrangement. Allowing this to happen leads to problems.

[islandgirl]

Absolutely. The new landlord has nothing to lose - if he can make your friend pay to put the building back into proper condition it is a win win. However in your friend's situation I would be extremely reluctant to pay a surveyor and think it is very sad if he will be forced to do so. Is one option to provide full details of the actual situation to the new agent (and without doubt to the acutal landlord also) and wait to see what happens? They may back off when they know that the situation on paper is very different to the situation in real life. Was the premises rented by a ltd company or an individual?

[atticus]

That may be worth trying, but this is commercial property, and commercial landlords are often even harder-nosed.

[islandgirl]

I know. I am one!

[forumdot]

Thank you all for your help, I will pass them on to him. Never having to encounter anything like this myself I find it hard to believe they would even do this. If only they could see the impact it is having on him!!!! Thanks so much