TM Legal Letter of Claim

[richto]

Hi, I have received today a letter of claim from TM Legal regarding a claimed debt of <£500 from an Energy company that is circa 2 years old via Perch Capital.

It includes no details other than the amount claimed and who to (no default date) and "you have failed to make the agreed payments as per the terms of the service therefore your account is currently in arrears".

At the time energy company in question went bust I had raised a billing complaint both about the bills themselves and also that i was promised £100 bill credit if i agreed to have a Smartmeter fitted at the time I took the account out by the sales guy over the phone but never received it. I never got a response to this - presumably because they shutdown.

I have never previously acknowledged any phone calls or letters from TM Legal.

What do I do to make their life as hard as possible to take this to court? And possibly defend it if they do.

Can I for example reasonably expect them to produce my billing, meter reading and payment history for say 12 months to check it? and the complaint details? I don't still have any paperwork related to the account.


Thanks.

[echat11]

Hi Richto

Welcome to LB

What's the name of the energy company?

The energy firm went 'bust', but who took over the accounts?

Send a SAR request to the company that took over the accounts, they have 30 days to provide all the data on the account.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

[richto]

Hi Richto

Welcome to LB

What's the name of the energy company?

The energy firm went 'bust', but who took over the accounts?

Send a SAR request to the company that took over the accounts, they have 30 days to provide all the data on the account.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

Hi, thanks, It was Orbit Energy.

The new company (Scottish Power) will have the complaints info and the historic billing data? It was never visible on my (new) account. And if they don't where do I stand with a only statement of I had outstanding issues vs the debt?

In the mean time do I need to do anything with the notice of claim? Or ignore it until I get court papers?

If I do that and decide to pay in the end do I still get lumped with the £50 solicitors fees and £50 court costs?

Thanks.

[echat11]

a) The new company (Scottish Power) will have the complaints info and the historic billing data? It was never visible on my (new) account.

They should have all the Orbit data, they have 30 days to provide it, they may hold data for the last 6 years.

b) And if they don't where do I stand with a only statement of I had outstanding issues vs the debt?

Lets see what they provide before speculating.

c) In the mean time do I need to do anything with the notice of claim? Or ignore it until I get court papers?

You could write a letter, write 'Without Prejudice' on the letter. Explain that you are disputing the debt, explain why. At least you are communicating with them and haven't ignored the Notice of Claim.

d) If I do that and decide to pay in the end do I still get lumped with the £50 solicitors fees and £50 court costs?

If they get Judgement in their favour, yes.

[richto]

OK looking back at my bank account it's more complicated than that. I think I had left Orbit before they went bust but the dispute was outstanding and unresolved. Apparently at the time customers were switched to more than one new supplier!

I think I will fight it but "If they get Judgement in their favour, yes.!" - What If I decide to admit the claim before allocation? i.e. take it as far as I can then pay up without going to court.

At least you are communicating with them and haven't ignored the Notice of Claim.

Is there any reason I should care to do that? Would it look bad in court if I didn't? So far I have ignored everything on the basis that I don't owe anything and have no obligation to engage with them. They have said they will take legal action before so I think many people would not realise this is anything other than another threatening letter. This is allegedly a company that makes money mostly out of harassing the poor so I want to make their life as hard as possible here.

[echat11]

a) OK looking back at my bank account it's more complicated than that. I think I had left Orbit before they went bust but the dispute was outstanding and unresolved. Apparently at the time customers were switched to more than one new supplier!

I'm not sure that matters.

b) I think I will fight it but "If they get Judgement in their favour, yes.!" - What If I decide to admit the claim before allocation? i.e. take it as far as I can then pay up without going to court.

See what information they send. Then assess how you want to proceed.

At least you are communicating with them and haven't ignored the Notice of Claim.

c) Is there any reason I should care to do that? Would it look bad in court if I didn't? So far I have ignored everything on the basis that I don't owe anything and have no obligation to engage with them.

You have a legitimate dispute, so there's no reason why they shouldn't be made aware of that. All helps down the line if they decide to lodge a Court claim. In your letter you can use the words 'alleged debt'.

[richto]

Thanks so much, will ponder and write here again if I need further assistance.

[richto]

So, I replied to the letter of claim explaining that a) the debt was disputed at the time, and b) according to my bank records regardless of this the claimed debt was settled. No reply.

2 months later court claim received:

The claimant claims payment for an overdue utilities amount for energy supplied by xxxxx to the defendant in the sum of xxx.xx. Energy was supplied from xx xx xx to xx xx xx, account reference xxxxxxxx . Following non payment the account was assigned by xxxxx to the claimant on or around xx xx xx. Energy was supplied to the defendant at xxxxxxxxxxx and the sum owed for the supply remains unpaid.

Responded asking for extra time + sent SAR to Perch Capital and CPR to TM Legal:

CPR 31.14 items requested:

1. Energy bill for cited period
2. Default notice
3. Notice of Assignment

No reply ten days after receipt (recorded) so I just wrote to TM Legal again a few days ago (recorded) reminding them of CPR duties and asking for a reply by return of post.

I propose to file an N244 to enforce next Monday if no reply again based on the guidance elsewhere. Any thoughts / comments please? This hearing would be allocated to my local court? Do I need to turn up / participate? I assume not if the documents are good?

[echat11]

Copy and paste back onto this thread without personal details. I'll go through post 8, I'm surprised they have stated proceedings when you have 'disputed the debt' (that needs go in your Defence).

Received a claim? Yes/No:
Issue Date:
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?:
Total Amount Claimed : ( approximately please do NOT use EXACT figure given on the claim form, round up to next £100 or £1000)
Claimant’s Name:
Solicitors Firm:
Original Creditor:
Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft) :
Particulars of Claim: ( Please type out in full excluding names/account numbers/exact amounts ):
Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?):
List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ):
Any Other Information or Background Details:

[richto]

Received a claim? Yes/No: Yes
Issue Date: 15 Jul 24
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: Yes
Total Amount Claimed : ~£400
Claimant’s Name: Perch Capital
Solicitors Firm: TM Legal
Original Creditor: Energy Company
Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft) : Utility Bill
Particulars of Claim: The claimant claims payment for an overdue utilities amount for energy supplied by xxxxx to the defendant in the sum of xxx.xx. Energy was supplied from xx xx xx to xx xx xx, account reference xxxxxxxx . Following non payment the account was assigned by xxxxx to the claimant on or around xx xx xx. Energy was supplied to the defendant at xxxxxxxxxxx and the sum owed for the supply remains unpaid.
Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): Not barred
List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ): SAR / CPR x 2 letters
Any Other Information or Background Details: History above. Propose to issue N244 and cost them £275 ideally if judgement in my favour. Fully expect they still won't comply and it will be struck out but we shall see.

Yes I was surprised too that they didn't even write back, but this is apparently a churn mill that relies on those that do nothing. Ditto the CPR being ignored (18 days since receipt of 1st letter now). Not expecting the SAR to be actioned either (asked Perch Capital for all data they had on me).

[echat11]

This is an example Defence, start looking at it. Some bit's of the example Defence don't apply, i.e. bit's that mention CCA etc.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-court-claims/

Don't speak to creditors, solicitors etc over the phone, everything in writing. Keep on top of this, especially dates for filing defence etc. Workout when your Defence is due, 28 days from the date on the claim form. If you can post on the thread 5 days before it's due we can help with your Defence.

[richto]

This is an example Defence, start looking at it. Some bit's of the example Defence don't apply, i.e. bit's that mention CCA etc.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-court-claims/

Don't speak to creditors, solicitors etc over the phone, everything in writing. Keep on top of this, especially dates for filing defence etc. Workout when your Defence is due, 28 days from the date on the claim form. If you can post on the thread 5 days before it's due we can help with your Defence.

Yes, but first I propose to enforce the CPR request via an N244 Directions Order. Happy to pay out £275 in the hope that I get costs awarded. I think this is likely after not one but two recorded CPR letters have been ignored. So draft order, witness statement, N244, copies of 2 x letters and 2 x PODs. Thoughts? Can I also ask for legal costs (or compensation for my time) like the £50 they asked me for, for self completion?

The money is not the issue. More the principle that I already paid what I didn't owe in the first place. And that this is allegedly a leech organisation that exists to extract money off mostly poor people so I would like to make their lives as miserable and as costly as possible if they can't follow basic due process.


I thought the due date is 28 days PLUS 5 days after the issue date?


Thanks for your help.

[echat11]

Yes, but first I propose to enforce the CPR request via an N244 Directions Order. Happy to pay out £275 in the hope that I get costs awarded. I think this is likely after not one but two recorded CPR letters have been ignored. So draft order, witness statement, N244, copies of 2 x letters and 2 x PODs. Thoughts? Can I also ask for legal costs (or compensation for my time) like the £50 they asked me for, for self completion?

The money is not the issue. More the principle that I already paid what I didn't owe in the first place. And that this is allegedly a leech organisation that exists to extract money off mostly poor people so I would like to make their lives as miserable and as costly as possible if they can't follow basic due process.


I thought the due date is 28 days PLUS 5 days after the issue date?


Thanks for your help.

a) 'Yes, but first I propose to enforce the CPR request via an N244 Directions Order. Happy to pay out £275 in the hope that I get costs awarded. I think this is likely after not one but two recorded CPR letters have been ignored. So draft order, witness statement, N244, copies of 2 x letters and 2 x PODs. Thoughts? Can I also ask for legal costs (or compensation for my time) like the £50 they asked me for, for self completion?'

That's going to be summed up in your Defence, i.e. you've requested CPR 31.14 on two occasion's. The Claimant hasn't complied with your requests. So it's a waste of money and time.

b) The money is not the issue. More the principle that I already paid what I didn't owe in the first place. And that this is allegedly a leech organisation that exists to extract money off mostly poor people so I would like to make their lives as miserable and as costly as possible if they can't follow basic due process.

Pragmatic.

c) I thought the due date is 28 days PLUS 5 days after the issue date?

It is, but you shouldn't need the 5 days.

[richto]

a) 'Yes, but first I propose to enforce the CPR request via an N244 Directions Order. Happy to pay out £275 in the hope that I get costs awarded. I think this is likely after not one but two recorded CPR letters have been ignored. So draft order, witness statement, N244, copies of 2 x letters and 2 x PODs. Thoughts? Can I also ask for legal costs (or compensation for my time) like the £50 they asked me for, for self completion?'

That's going to be summed up in your Defence, i.e. you've requested CPR 31.14 on two occasion's. The Claimant hasn't complied with your requests. So it's a waste of money and time.

b) The money is not the issue. More the principle that I already paid what I didn't owe in the first place. And that this is allegedly a leech organisation that exists to extract money off mostly poor people so I would like to make their lives as miserable and as costly as possible if they can't follow basic due process.

Pragmatic.

c) I thought the due date is 28 days PLUS 5 days after the issue date?

It is, but you shouldn't need the 5 days.

Thanks. For N244 I was planning to ask for costs awarded as per the template. I doubt they are going to comply anyway = case struck off.

I cant see a much stronger case for costs awarded than I have. So hopefully a cost to them, not to me. Still you feel a wasted effort?

[richto]

a) 'Yes, but first I propose to enforce the CPR request via an N244 Directions Order. Happy to pay out £275 in the hope that I get costs awarded. I think this is likely after not one but two recorded CPR letters have been ignored. So draft order, witness statement, N244, copies of 2 x letters and 2 x PODs. Thoughts? Can I also ask for legal costs (or compensation for my time) like the £50 they asked me for, for self completion?'

That's going to be summed up in your Defence, i.e. you've requested CPR 31.14 on two occasion's. The Claimant hasn't complied with your requests. So it's a waste of money and time.

b) The money is not the issue. More the principle that I already paid what I didn't owe in the first place. And that this is allegedly a leech organisation that exists to extract money off mostly poor people so I would like to make their lives as miserable and as costly as possible if they can't follow basic due process.

Pragmatic.

c) I thought the due date is 28 days PLUS 5 days after the issue date?

It is, but you shouldn't need the 5 days.

OK sample defence if you think this is the preferred approach:

1. The Defendant received the claim xxxxxx from the Northampton County Court on xx July 2024
2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
3. The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable the defendant to properly assess their position with regards to the claim. xxxxx went bust in 2021 with a billing dispute ongoing over the alleged debt. The defendant believes that even so, they subsequently settled the alleged debt and have bank statements that indicate this.
4. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from xxxxx to Perch Capital on xx September 2023. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.
5. On xx April the Defendant received a notice before action from TM Legal. The Defendant replied the same day explaining that the debt was disputed and why. The defendant has received no reply to this letter.
6. On the xx July 2024 The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to TM Legal. The Defendant requested the Claimant provide the utility bill from the cited period, a Default Notice and Notice of Assignment. The Defendant followed this up with a reminder on xx August 2024. Both requests were sent via recorded post.
7. The Claimant has not sent any of these documents to the Defendant or responded at all.
8. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
9. The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out.
10. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend his defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
11. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
Signed ________
Dated ________


Should I send this alone, or respond to sections 1 and 2 on the N9B as well?