No pre action protocol

[Just234]

Can a case be struck out because there was no pre action protocol? Along with lack of evidence or proof of any loan or payment made?
the first I heard of the debt a guy knocked on my door on a Sunday morning saying he was a police officer then said he was collection a debt from someone from prison. He had a solicitors typed up letter. Not very official looking.
we rang the solicitor and told him it wasn’t our debt and don’t know what he was talking about. The next thing we got was the claim form. I put in defence and haven’t heard anything for a year. Now they’ve been asked by the judge to add a particulars of claim which needed more details,
they still have no actual proof of any loan or arrangement just ‘he says’ there’s no payment details or bank Acc details.
can it be struck on this basis?

[atticus]

It may be that this case can be struck out, due to deficiencies in the Particulars of Claim.

Lack of evidence may be a reason to seek summary judgement dismissing the claim.

There is a pre action protocol. It should be followed, but not doing so should not lead to a claim being struck out.

[Just234]

Thanks

so do you think I should ask to see what evidence they have of the loan payment first.? Then when they dont produce anything I can ask for it to be struck out or summary judgement?

[atticus]

Requesting the evidence would be a good first step. Use a CPR31.14 request for documents https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/

[Just234]

Am I ok to do that even if on the particulars of claim they have not mentioned any documents. - this does seem to say if there are no mention of any specific documents on Particulars of claim I cannot request them.
It just says agreement was verbal, request for return of funds was verbal, gives dates of supposed payment
it was sent via email where he states ‘he says he has evidence of payment’

[Just234]

Also how do I ask court for more time to file defence? soni have to file n24 or can it be just posted/requested via email to the court and claimant?

[atticus]

Hold on, hasn't the claimant been ordered to file a properly detailed Particulars of Claim? Surely you need to see that before you can answer it. (And you can ask for any documents referred to in it).

[Just234]

Yeah he has emailed me the updated particulars
of claim I’ve got that now
but whilst it is has more detail to it it is still ‘he says’
there is no definites or reference to any written document saying everything was verbal agreement. The only thing that is mentions is via the email the solicitor added a note saying the claimant has evidence of payment made. But that is not written on the particulars of claim.
All it mentions is a payment was made of x amount direct to my account.

[Just234]

Ok so I sent an email requesting documents giving 7 days to respond. Also asking for him to notify me if he needed more time. 7 days is up on Monday. I know he won’t be able to provide the evidence I have asked for because it doesn’t exist.
so - What do I do now? Can I request the court strike the case out as he has no evidence and obviously isn’t forthcoming with it to me? Or do I ask court for summary judgement?

[R0b]

First of all, what order did the judge make at the previous hearing and have you received the documented order from the court setting out the next steps of each party? If so, what does it say exactly? If not, call the court and see if an order has been drawn up and confirm what it says then let us know. At the very minimum, the judge must have explained how much time you have to respond and then also a date to be set for the next hearing.

Second, you are asking us to give you some direction whilst driving blind. If you want us to give you something tangible, you're going to have to provide us with these detailed particulars as written (personal info redacted). Only then can we work out how you might want to approach it.

Of course you can choose not to but in that case I will drop out because I can't tell you what to do if I haven't seen what you are supposed to respond to.

[Just234]

Ok I’ll explain
I received a county court claim to which I replied last year refuting all of the claim.
we then got sent a request for mediation which I accepted at first then having re-read everything I cancelled it on the grounds that I was had not been sent any details of the claim and requested these details from the claimant. Heard nothing from court or claimant.
It was being transferred to local court and heard nothing for 9 months then got a letter from the court asking the claimant to re submit particulars of claim as the court found that the particulars of claim did not satisfy the requirements of practise direction 16 of the civil procedure rules.
He has now done that and I have to resubmit my defence based on his particulars of claim.
The claimant has still not given any evidence of any payment made to me. ( He has no proof so that is why he can’t prove it.)
I will summarise his particulars
1. A business arrangement was made between defendant 1, defendant 2 &claimant (c)
2. Claimant known def1 & def2 for 6months
3. Oral agreement of Payment arrangement -Moneys to be paid back over 6 months period
4. Monies payed direct to def 2 account on (dates given)
5. Claimant directly and personally asked for monies returned via Oral communication.
6. Claimant appointed an employee to speak to us about the debt to which we acknowledged debt and agreed to pay full amount
7. Threat made to employee
8. due to ‘aggressive stance’ they personally handed a letter before action
9. Claimants refused to attend mediation appointment

(all of this is absolute nonsense all by verbal way of agreement nothing in writing. in my eyes unless they can show payment made which they can’t there is no case and this is all proven lies and should be seen as nothing more than vexatious litigation.)

I have requested evidence of payment made in reference to particulars of claim 4. And had no response

so can I now ask the court to request it? Do I need to give the claimant more time? Can I ask for summary judgment as there is no evidence of payment made? Or is my only option to put in a defence?

[R0b]

I don't mean to be rude but I did suggest that you provide the full wording, summarising the particulars of claim is not very helpful because it doesn't represent the actual claimant's words, how he has set it out and there may be key information that you've decided to disregard in your summary that could be important as to how you respond.

How long did the court give you to file a response? Were there any consequences on the order not filing a compliant particulars of claim?

Because you haven't given enough information for us to consider I will briefly answer your questions.

1. What are you asking the court to request? Any request to the court to strike out must be made by formal application and the associated fee of £275.

2. I don't know if you need to give the claimant more time as we don't know what the order from the court says. Assuming the court has said he must file proper particulars of claim and in doing so you file a defence. He has (so far) fulfilled his obligation so the answer would be no unless the court order says otherwise, which would a be strange order.

3. You can ask for summary judgment per my point 1 above and paying the correct fee but whether you will win is a different question. You have to satisfy the requirements for summary judgment (CPR 24 are the rules for summary judgment) before a court will grant it. The claimant is not required to supply you with evidence in his particulars of claim, that comes at the witness statement stage. Just because the agreement was allegedly entered verbally does not automatically mean there is no evidence that an agreement didn't take place. If you lose your application for summary judgment then you might be liable to pay the claimant his costs.

[Just234]

Ok Thankyou for you help.
I appreciate there is limited advice you can give with the information I have provided.and I do appreciate the time and your efforts in your explanation.

so my question is as everything in this particulars of claim is fabrication of events that did not happen. How do I prove something did not happen? What is my defence to that? How do I prove I have not spoken to someone before or prove I have had no verbal request for money,
my defence I would have thought would be to see payment details that he says he has evidence of - I know he can’t provide any details- no details = no payment = no claim
That is why I want to ask the court to ask the claimant to provide me with these details. Can this not be done?

And if a person has not adhered to pre action protocols has had no prior contact and provided no information outlining this claim or loan as it was first described when and how does this effect any claim?

[efpom]

Is this connected with https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...ll-claims-help

[efpom]

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