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CCA responded after 9 mnts maybe incomplete and wrong. Can we do anything?

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  • CCA responded after 9 mnts maybe incomplete and wrong. Can we do anything?

    Dear all,

    I have a question for the PROs and this entire amazing and helpful community

    I received a response from my CCA request after 9 months of placing the request and in the post I received the following:
    * Cover letter from solicitors (MoriartyLaw) apologizing for the delay in responding
    * Front copy of the REPLY CARD for credit card application (has one of my old addresses on from 2003).... this is just one page
    * Copy of the terms and conditions from the original credit card lender (BUT this has my address that is from roughly 2008 on it.... different to the reply card one)....
    * Printout copy of the transactions


    Here is where I am hoping the PROs and this entire community could help with the following questions:

    1. They have not supplied the "true copy" of the Credit Agreement that is countersigned by the lender, they just sent me a copy of the reply card for credit card application. Does this mean they have not complied to the CCA request properly?

    2. The credit card application form (again, not a credit agreement signed) has one address from 2003 and the copy of the terms they sent has my address from around 2008 I believe. Is this another default on their side, making them not comply to the CCA request and placing this account in dispute?

    3. The copy of the transactions history they sent for the account clearly shows that the LAST payment on the account was 15th Aug 2012. No payments were made on that account as it seems after that and no acknowledgment of the debt. The lender has placed the default though many months later around Feb 2013, but the last payment on the account shows as per above.


    Do you think I have any opportunity here to keep account in dispute based on the above?
    or
    Do you think I could maybe seek Statute Barred position for this account?

    Should I respond to the solicitors (Moriarty) and what should I write?

    Amethyst MIKE770 charitynjw
    EXC nemesis45 warwick65 Diana M
    ODC Angry Cat jaguarsuk


    What do you think is a smart thing to do?





    PS.
    This is a question for the entire community of course and I want to THANK YOU ALL in advance for helping.
    I have a young daughter and any help or relief from financial struggles and pressure I can get is more than welcome

  • #2
    Was the account opened in 2003 and defaulted in/after 2008 ? ( thinking the first document is from the time of opening and the second is the terms as varied - which is required to be provided under the CCA )

    Are there no additional terms with the Reply Card part ? If not, does the reply card refer to other terms at all? and does the card itself contain all the prescribed terms and state it is the agreement ?

    Away till 25th May xx

    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
    Hetty Bower

    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

    If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
      Was the account opened in 2003 and defaulted in/after 2008 ? ( thinking the first document is from the time of opening and the second is the terms as varied - which is required to be provided under the CCA )

      Are there no additional terms with the Reply Card part ? If not, does the reply card refer to other terms at all? and does the card itself contain all the prescribed terms and state it is the agreement ?
      Dear Amethyst,

      Thank you for your prompt reply, it is much appreciated.

      Yes you are correct it does refer to an account opened in or around 2003.

      I can scan the "Reply Card" and also the first page of the Terms as they sent over to me and maybe email you? or send you those by PM potentially if that would be of help?

      The "reply card" has a stamp on it that says "SUBJ 2 CRED APP" and it states at the beginning of the "DECLARATION":
      I am applying for a Visa credit card, PIN and cheques issued by BANK NAME, subject to status. I have read and agreed to be bound by the Terms & Conditions (T&Cs)...........

      But the Terms and Conditions they sent in that CCA request are very obviously not the same as any that might or might not have been attached with that "Reply Card" (where this reply card was obviously general marketing "blanket sent" to consumers by post to get them to apply)....

      PS.
      What do you think about the "Statute Barred" potential and the last payment vs date of default?

      Thank you again and please do let me know if I can PM you the scans as per above, if needed.

      Comment


      • #4
        email is fine - admin@legalbeagles.info

        They'd have sent a copy of the agreement at the time the account was opened ( sounds like that is the reply card 2003 and it is incomplete ) - then sent a copy of the terms as varied ( so at time of default 2008 ).

        Statute Barred is difficult. Once have seen the terms it might be simpler but there are cases being appealed at the moment following a ruling that the default date is the cause of action regardless of the last payment ( if before the default date)... so it's an argument but not one to rely on fully ( for now ). Are Moriarty saying they intend to take this to court ?
        Away till 25th May xx

        “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
        Hetty Bower

        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

        If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

        Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
          email is fine - admin@legalbeagles.info

          They'd have sent a copy of the agreement at the time the account was opened ( sounds like that is the reply card 2003 and it is incomplete ) - then sent a copy of the terms as varied ( so at time of default 2008 ).

          Statute Barred is difficult. Once have seen the terms it might be simpler but there are cases being appealed at the moment following a ruling that the default date is the cause of action regardless of the last payment ( if before the default date)... so it's an argument but not one to rely on fully ( for now ). Are Moriarty saying they intend to take this to court ?
          I will scan and email a copy to you in the next 20min Amethyst. THANK YOU

          When I placed the CCA request to them, some 9 months ago, I did ask them for:
          1. The full true copy of the signed and executed credit agreement;
          2. The default notice;
          3. The notice of assignment;
          4. Statements of account;

          They have not sent me the default notice or the notice of assignment either. Is that something to ask for separately from the solicitors?

          Comment


          • #6
            PS. Solicitors have been wise of course and left their letter generally vague saying:

            Pls find enclosed the relevant documents in response to your query regarding the account. Please accept our apologies for the delay of replying.

            In order to discuss your account please contact us on TEL NO. Contact must be made within the next 30 days otherwise further action will take place on your account.


            .....
            so they have not stated specifically anything really........


            I have just connected the scanner and will do a scan of the docs and email over to you


            THANK YOU. You are amazing for helping me and I truly do appreciate that

            Comment


            • #7
              No worries, I'll check emails shortly.

              The list of documents sounds like you were asking under a CPR 31.14 request as opposed to a CCA request - was it a formal CCA request ( under sec 78 of the consumer credit act 1974) and you enclosed a £1 payment with the letter ? ( just checking as it has different legal consequences)
              Away till 25th May xx

              “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
              Hetty Bower

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

              If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

              Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Okay the reply card mentions terms - para 22 for example. and they are not provided. It doesn't contain all the prescribed terms. They'd have to give you a copy ( or recon) of the whole leaflet that that reply card is from - currently it is unenforceable ( but to make it enforceable they just have to provide the accompanying terms ).



                Away till 25th May xx

                “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
                Hetty Bower

                Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  So you can write back to them and say that the agreement is unenforceable and it is your contention the debt is statute barred ( no need to go into specifics ) and that any further action will be strongly defended without having received compliant documentation ( and the default notice and notice of assignment as previously requested )
                  Away till 25th May xx

                  “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
                  Hetty Bower

                  Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                  Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                  If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                  Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Amethyst THANK YOU.

                    YOU ARE AMAZING!!!

                    I have just managed to check the posts and have to run out and go and get my daughter, but will try to formulate a letter response for the solicitors as soon as practicably possible and will then post it here for review and critique.

                    Would that be ok?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dear Amethyst and all the forum members of course,

                      Could you please review the below draft, intended as a response to the solicitors and the documents they sent in response to the formal CCA 1974 and advise me of the most appropriate wording?

                      DRAFT LETTER RESPONSE TO THE SOLICITORS:

                      "SOLICITORS NAME
                      SOLICITORS ADDRESS

                      Date

                      Dear Sirs
                      Your Ref: xxxxxxx
                      Acc No: xxxxxxxxxx


                      Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2018 and the documents supplied, contents of which are duly noted.

                      Unfortunately that response and the documentation supplied was not compliant and incomplete, as in response to my formal CCA request made pursuant to the section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Unless/until you do comply with that formal request fully, section 78(6) applies and the alleged debt and the account remain in dispute.

                      Please refer to my letter sent to you, dated xx/xx/2017, asking for further documentation in addition to the letter and the formal CCA request as sent to your client as well, both of which have been acknowledged.

                      Furthermore, as per the documents you have supplied, it is my contention that the alleged debt is also Statute Barred now.

                      For avoidance of any doubt: I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS OR ANY DEBT TO YOUR OR YOUR CLIENTS COMPANY WHATSOEVER; ALLEGED ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

                      I am looking forward to your response to the above and shall be able to provide you with a full response to your letter within 30 days of receipt of all of the documents as requested previously, as well as your response to the Statute Barred contention and also reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if proceedings are issued without first providing complete and compliant copy of the documents to me or the response to the Statute Barred contention.

                      Yours faithfully,
                      (digitally signed)"



                      What do you think?
                      Any suggestions re: the wording above or is it fine as it is?

                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Just for further reference, I have previously submitted the formal CCA request to the DCA that holds the alleged debt and used the form as found in this forum, along with the statutory payment. The document was received by the DCA and acknowledged and they cashed the £1 postal order.

                      At the same time I have sent a letter response to their solicitors as well with the following wording, as per below:


                      "Dear Sirs
                      Your Ref: xxxxxxx

                      Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2017. As the letter contains a threat of litigation, it is being treated as a formal letter before action. As such, I refer you to paragraph 3 of the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct, which states: “before commencing proceedings, the court will expect the parties to have exchanged sufficient information to (a) understand each other’s position; (b) make decisions about how to proceed;”

                      Paragraph 6 states “the parties should exchange correspondence and information to comply with the objectives“ and Paragraph 6 (c) refers to “the parties disclosing key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.” My request refers to the documents I require to obtain the necessary information to assess my position in this case.

                      As you are referring to an alleged debt from an agreement started on xx/xx/2003 I require copies of the following:
                      1. The full true copy of the signed and executed credit agreement;
                      2. The default notice;
                      3. The notice of assignment;
                      4. Statements of account;

                      These documents would be expected to be supplied if proceedings were issued and would likely be in your possession if you were issuing a claim. If you consider that there is difficulty in providing a copy of a document, please identify that document and the reason.

                      Additionally, there is a duty to supply documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. A request has been made under s.78 on xx/xx/2017 and I am awaiting a response from your client.

                      I shall be able to provide you with a full response to your letter within 30 days of receipt of all of the documents listed above and also reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if proceedings are issued without first providing copy documents to me.

                      Yours faithfully,
                      "



                      Do you think I should send a CPR 31.14 request to the solicitors as well?
                      Or the letter above at the start of this draft response will suffice?



                      Thank you for any input and advice, it is genuinely appreciated and I hope it can also serve as a good reference to anyone in the future as well.






                      Comment


                      • #12
                        All looks pretty darn good to me.... I'd probably add in the Limitation Act tot he part about statute barring

                        eg...

                        Furthermore, as per the documents you have supplied, it is my contention that the alleged debt is Statute Barred pursuant to section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980.


                        Also in the letter to the solicitors I'd, in addition to what you have already said, remind them of the specific pre-action protocols for debt claims ( Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims PDF )
                        Away till 25th May xx

                        “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
                        Hetty Bower

                        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                        If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                        Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                          All looks pretty darn good to me.... I'd probably add in the Limitation Act tot he part about statute barring

                          eg...

                          Furthermore, as per the documents you have supplied, it is my contention that the alleged debt is Statute Barred pursuant to section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980.


                          Also in the letter to the solicitors I'd, in addition to what you have already said, remind them of the specific pre-action protocols for debt claims ( Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims PDF )
                          THANK YOU Amethyst,

                          I shall do so


                          PS.
                          I was looking at a way to express my thanks properly and have seen, while browsing under user settings, there is an option to become a VIP member in return for a donation. For me it is more about rewarding this site and You, as you are providing an amazing service and a really good reference point to the public. Well done on creating a great site such as this one and of course HUGE PRAISE to the members for contributing as well.

                          I am going to organize that donation payment tomorrow, most probably from my partners account. I presume you have a system in place to match the payments to users if payments not sent from user themselves? (sorry if the question is answered already, but it is getting late for me so becoming a bit drowsy now)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bless you, thank you. If you do it through your account on hear then it will match up the username with the upgrade payment. That's extremely kind of you, particularly as I've hardly said anything to help - you've done all the hardwork on your own - and there's likely a fair way to go until this is all sorted out xxx
                            Away till 25th May xx

                            “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
                            Hetty Bower

                            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                            If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                            Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Welcome to VIP and thank you - your support is appreciated xxx
                              Away till 25th May xx

                              “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.”
                              Hetty Bower

                              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                              If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                              Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

                              Comment

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