**DISCONTINUED** Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

[marketsqhero]

Received a claim? Yes
Issue Date: 9th November 2016
Amount approx: £17,833,52
Claimant: Arrow Global Limited
Solicitor: Restons
Original Creditor: Paragon
Particulars of Claim: See Below
Is the debt Statute Barred? No
List any letters you have sent:
Any Other Info:

Hi;

Ok, I would really like some advice as this is a little convoluted:

Myself & my ex-wife took out a loan with Universal Credit way back in 1994 for (I think) £10,000. This was taken in joint names.

All payments were being paid as normal, and around 1997 Paragon bought Universal Credit. We got into a little financial difficulty and I arranged with Paragon to reduce payments to £150 per month.

Around the year 2000 we separated (now divorced) and I asked Paragon for some info so I could pay off the renaming amount. I had worked out that I probably owed around £2k at this point, so imagine my horror when I found out it was now over £10k, more than the previous loan even thought I had been paying for 6 years! Paragon refused to send me any statements to clarify the situation and it seems that the interest being charged was more than the £150 I was paying although the never advised me of this at the time.

I left the home, refused to deal with Paragon and hoped it would disappear (yes, bad move I know)

I haven't heard anything from them until the last couple of months when Restons got in touch stating their client - Arrow Global where wanting a discussion on how to pay the £17k we owed them from the debt they bought in 2012. Myself and my ex both received these letters, albeit from different people at Restons.

I was going to go for Stature Barred until I found out my ex has been paying £1 monthly to Paragon since who knows when and had forgotten all about it, so this is out of the window.

On 19th August I sent Restons a "prove it" letter, which they duly replied to with details of the account and the last time a £1 payment was made (this was when I found out about the £1 my ex had been paying monthly).

I then sent a CCA to Restons on 14th September with a £1 postal order, they replied saying they couldn't comply as they were a solicitor not the owner of the debt.

On 6th October I sent a CCA to Arrow Global, a letter to Restons to state that I had sent a CCA to Arrow Global and also a separate letter to Restons on behalf of my ex to state that I was dealing with this and for him to discuss this with his colleague who I was dealing with.

I have received nothing back from Arrow, I did receive another letter from Restons stating that once again they were a solicitors not the debt owner so they couldn;t comply with my request (even though I hadn't asked them too, my letter to them was purely for information that I had sent the CCA to Arrow!) and then bizarrely that I hadn't enclosed any payment for them to process a CCA which they weren't going to do anyway...

So I waited it out and then on the 10th of November both myself and my ex received claim forms from CCBC.

Having examined them both they both have the same Claim No., they both have the same particulars. One had my ex first as the defendant and me second, and on mine it has me first and my ex as a co-defendant.

The particulars are below:

The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) and Paragon dated on or about May 31 1994 and assigned to the Claimant on Sep 26 2012

Particulars a/c no - 55433770

Date - 26/07/2016

Item - Default Balance
Value - 17833.52

Item - Post Refrl Cr
Value - NIL

Total - 17833.52

There is also Court Fee of 802.51 and Legal Costs of £100 to add.

Some added info:

We never signed anything with Paragon, it was Universal Credit, Paragon didn't buy Universal Credit until 1997!

Neither my ex or I remember receiving a Notice of Assignment from Paragon to Arrow Global in 2012.


So, please help, where do I go from here?!

I assume I need to Acknowledge Service firstly, does this need to be done for both of us or just for the one claim? Does the fact that I sent a CCA to Arrow cover both of us, or do I need to CCA Arrow on behalf of my ex too?

I am a bit confused on whether they can go for both of us separately or whether the non producal of a CCA which I requested covers both of us?

Thanks very much for your time.

Regards

Darren

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

Can you just clarify that you and your ex-wife have received identical summons with the identical claim reference but served on you both individually at your respective separate addresses?

It seems from your post that you and your ex-wife may be in contact and possibly willing to collaborate in the way in which you both manage these legal proceedings.

Di

[marketsqhero]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

Hi Diana;

Yes that's correct, my ex still lives in the martial home where the loan would have originally been taken out. I moved out of there around 15 years ago. We are still in contact (we have a son) and she is happy to let me deal with this for both of us if possible.

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

On 6th October I sent a CCA to Arrow Global, a letter to Restons to state that I had sent a CCA to Arrow Global . . .

I have received nothing back from Arrow

Did you send your CCA Request to Arrow by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery or get Proof of Posting?

And when you say you "received nothing back from Arrow" do you mean no documents or not even a letter acknowledging receipt of your CCA Request?

Di

[marketsqhero]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

Yes, all the letters to Restons and the one to Arrow were sent Recorded Delivery, all have been signed as delivered and I still have the postage slips. No, I have received nothing whatsoever from Arrow, no documents nor an acknowledgement letter.

Darren

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

Hi Diana;

Yes that's correct, my ex still lives in the martial home where the loan would have originally been taken out. I moved out of there around 15 years ago. We are still in contact (we have a son) and she is happy to let me deal with this for both of us if possible.

When you divorced was there a formal/legal financial agreement which covered any debts outstanding at the time?

This shouldn't effect your/her liability for the debt in these proceedings but it may become relevant for other reasons.

Di

[marketsqhero]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

No, there was never a clean break agreement or other formal agreement done at the time (and still isn't, possibly something else to consider but it's all amicable so never considered it really).

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

all the letters to Restons and the one to Arrow were sent Recorded Delivery, all have been signed as delivered

And you included the £1 statutory fee with the CCA Request to Arrow?

Di

[marketsqhero]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

I did yes, I put in the £1 postal order which Restons sent back to me!

- - - Updated - - -

This was the CCA letter I sent:

Dear Sir/Madam

Ref: Arrow Global Limited / Paragon: Account No: 55433770

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77-79], I am entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request.

I enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.

I have previously contacted the solicitors acting on your behalf (Restons) and they advised as they were not the creditors they could not deal with this, hence me passing this onto yourselves as the alleged creditors.

A copy of Restons reply is enclosed.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully




Darren Moore

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

I did yes, I put in the £1 postal order which Restons sent back to me!

I meant did you send the £1 postal order to Arrow with your CCA Request to them (as well as the one to Restons)?

EDIT you've updated your previous post

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

6th October I sent a CCA to Arrow Global, a letter to Restons to state that I had sent a CCA to Arrow Global and also a separate letter to Restons on behalf of my ex to state that I was dealing with this and for him to discuss this with his colleague who I was dealing with.

. . . . So I waited it out and then on the 10th of November both myself and my ex received claim forms from CCBC.

Having examined them both they both have the same Claim No., they both have the same particulars. One had my ex first as the defendant and me second, and on mine it has me first and my ex as a co-defendant.

. . . . I assume I need to Acknowledge Service firstly, does this need to be done for both of us or just for the one claim? Does the fact that I sent a CCA to Arrow cover both of us, or do I need to CCA Arrow on behalf of my ex too?

I am a bit confused on whether they can go for both of us separately or whether the non producal of a CCA which I requested covers both of us?

The short answer to your question is everything will have to be done in duplicate.

Your ex wife must also file her AOS online or she could get a Default Judgment against her even if you have filed your AOS.

The same goes for everything else. Your ex wife must send a CCA Request to Arrow. They could comply with one request but not the other.

And the same goes for any CPR 31.14 Request to Restons. You both have to send one, and each of you individually will have to follow the court procedure. She will get letters/Orders from the court which may vary from what you are receiving.

It's up to Restons if they want one person to handle the file(s) or two different ones. You can't dictate that.

Your Witness Statements may have different content.

It's helpful that you and your ex wife are on good terms, and it's helpful that you're willing to help her with all this. But she will still have to sign everything herself and fully understand what she is signing/doing.

This claim is likely to be allocated to the Fast Track since it's £17k which will take months (30 weeks from allocation to Trial on average) to travel through the legal system unless something halts it along the way. There's no guarantee that the files (yours and your ex wife's) will be in sync.

Part of the process is called "Disclosure" where you have to reveal all documents you have in your possession. If your ex wife has been making payments she will probably have different paperwork than you will have if there's been correspondence between various parties from her alone.

And so on.

Di

[marketsqhero]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

Ok, that's fine, I can deal with that.

So should I now get a CCA request to Arrow for my ex too?

I am pretty certain they don't have an enforceable CCA, the fact they keep staying Paragon are the original are the original creditors when it was Universal Credit makes me very suspicious.

I guess I wrongly assumed that if it was proven unenforceable by myself then the whole case would be dismissed?

So, bearing in mind everything has to be done in duplicate what are my next steps?

So far I've CCA request from Restons (incorrectly) and then CCA to Arrow.

I guess I / we need to file an AoS and I we need to CCA Arrow for my ex also?

Also what should I request in the CIPR? There is nothing listed as far as I can tell in the particulars.

Is it worth my sending another CCA to Arrow? Should I copy Restons in on these?

Thanks for all your help, this could run and run I guess. For info I'm pretty sure 90% of that £17k is interest which they started to add on without advising me it was more than what they advised me to pay.

Unfortunately after all this time and many house moves in my part all documentation is gone.

Should I SAR Paragon?

Darren

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

I guess I wrongly assumed that if it was proven unenforceable by myself then the whole case would be dismissed?

It's not as simple as that.

Legal procedure allows for both parties to change things (with the court's permission) as the claim progresses.

For example if the Claimant realizes that their POC are woefully inadequate they may apply to file an Amended Particulars of Claim once the penny drops.

All the time this is going on the Claimant's solicitors will be running up legal costs which you and your ex wife are likely to have to pay if you lose. They won't worry about you running up significant costs because you are a Litigant in Person so they're not going to anticipate a massive bill if they lose.

Your CCA Request was made relatively recently (September) so they're probably running around in circles to see what they can come up with.

As I said in my previous post everything must be done in duplicate by both you and your ex wife.

Di

[marketsqhero]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

Ok, so what would the advice be to do next?

Darren

[Diana M]

Re: Restons / Arrow / Paragon v marketsqhero

Both of you must go online and file your Acknowledgement of Service(s) stating that you intend to defend all of the claim.

Di