**WON!!** Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

[MrPickles]

Claimant: HOIST PORTFOLIO HOLDING 2 LTD

In addition to HOIST.. this debt also involves both HOWARD COHEN AND CO and ROBINSON WAY. Guess they're all good friends.

OK. So firstly I received a Claim Form back on September 13.

It was from the "County Court Business Centre" in Northampton, and it regards an old loan. Total amount owing is allegedly nearly 14K.

My position is that this debt is now statute barred.

Anyway. That very same day, I phoned National Debt Line and explained that I believe the debt to be Statute Barred.

They told me to fill in the forms: both the Acknowledgment of Service, and the Defence and Counterclaim parts. In this, I simply stated my defence (that it is statute barred) and that I have informed the claimant of this matter and will await their reply. And indeed on the same day I printed off a letter using a template as guided by the National Debt Line, which outlines the statute barred law in regards to this debt, and sent it by recorded mail.

I have not heard back regarding that letter.

However, yesterday (October 20th) I received another form from the same County Court.

This one is called: Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Fast Track.

Inside there is a "Directions Questionnaire" form (N181) and that's it.

I phoned the National Debt Line (just now) and was advised to return the form (obviously) but they couldn't walk me through it. In fact, they advised legal advice.

Before/until I do that, I did some online research which brought me here!

So..

Any help or advice regarding this N181 form, and my overall position would be hugely welcomed.

Cheers,

MrPickles

[nemesis45]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Good afternoon Mr P, welcome to LB.

Howard Cohen ( solicitors for rent in the debt industry) Robinson Way ( authorised representative of Hoist doing all the dirty work)

Fast track is the more formal court process for debt over£10K.

Did you have notice from the court saying your defence had been received and would be forwarded to the claimant?

I take it you have not sent Cohen a request made under the provisions of Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 for inspection of the documents specifically mentioned in the Particulars of Claim or a request for a copy the loan agreement to Robinson Way together with the £1 Statutory Fee?

These if not already done should be made ASAP.
What is the foundation for saying the debt is statute barred?

What questions in the N181 do you need help with.

nem

[Diana M]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Claimant: HOIST PORTFOLIO HOLDING 2 LTD

In addition to HOIST.. this debt also involves both HOWARD COHEN AND CO and ROBINSON WAY. Guess they're all good friends.

OK. So firstly I received a Claim Form back on September 13.

It was from the "County Court Business Centre" in Northampton, and it regards an old loan. Total amount owing is allegedly nearly 14K.

My position is that this debt is now statute barred.

Anyway. That very same day, I phoned National Debt Line and explained that I believe the debt to be Statute Barred.

They told me to fill in the forms: both the Acknowledgment of Service, and the Defence and Counterclaim parts. In this, I simply stated my defence (that it is statute barred) and that I have informed the claimant of this matter and will await their reply. And indeed on the same day I printed off a letter using a template as guided by the National Debt Line, which outlines the statute barred law in regards to this debt, and sent it by recorded mail.

I have not heard back regarding that letter.

However, yesterday (October 20th) I received another form from the same County Court.

This one is called: Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Fast Track.

Inside there is a "Directions Questionnaire" form (N181) and that's it.

I phoned the National Debt Line (just now) and was advised to return the form (obviously) but they couldn't walk me through it. In fact, they advised legal advice.

National Debt Line were right to advise you to get legal advice on a Fast Track claim since if you lose the case you will have to pay all the other side's legal costs as well as the debt.

You say you've filed a Defence of Statute Barred. Is that all you pleaded?

You say the original debt such as loan so when would the loan term have expired if it had completed its full term (natural length)?

Who was the original creditor? Some have more known shortcomings than others

Have you ever sent a formal s.77 - 79 CCA Request for a copy of your credit agreement. If not then you should do that asap.

The rules on Disclosure are much stricter in the Fast Track so your opponent will have to work hard to win this claim.

What makes you so sure that the debt is SB? Do you have evidence of your last payment or acknowledgement of the debt? While the onus of proof will be on the Claimant, you also need to be sure that they can't prove you wrong.

You say NDL told you to file a Counterclaim. Did you do that and what would it be for (PPI perhaps)?

There will be other things to do but your Directions Questionnaire is the next most important thing, so what is the deadline for you to file it with the court and serve it on the other side? You've been sent that because the court acknowledges your Defence has been filed and has served it on the Claimant who has informed the court that it intends to continue with the proceedings.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

One more thing

Send a Subject Access Request to the original creditor so you have the full history of your account. This could be invaluable when pleading SB as a Defence, and also to verify any reconstituted documents sent to you along the way such as the Default Notice or the Notice(s) of Assignment.

The average time for a Fast Track claim to arrive at Trial is 30 weeks from allocation . Here's a rough idea of what to expect >https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...rt28/pd_part28

This timeframe may change if either party interrupts the flow of proceedings with things such as a Summary Judgment application or an application to force Disclosure etc.

Double check that your DQ says the claim will be allocated to Fast Track and not the Small Claims court. Howard Cohen try to keep claims in the Small Claims court to avoid the risk of paying your costs if they lose. Also the Small Claims court only requires Standard Disclosure not Full Disclosure which makes it easier for a Claimant.

Di

[MrPickles]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Hello nem,

Appreciate the rapid reply!

Howard Cohen ( solicitors for rent in the debt industry) Robinson Way ( authorised representative of Hoist doing all the dirty work)

Good to know.

I originally wrote to Robinson Way many months ago regarding this debt, telling them the debt is statute barred. They replied that a payment was last received in December 2012, but they provided no proof of that.

Out of interest I checked my statements back to that time and there is no record of any payment at all. And I only have 1 bank account, and have had it since 2007.

Did you have notice from the court saying your defence had been received and would be forwarded to the claimant?

I did it online via the money claim website. The website reports that my defence was received. I wasn't notified by post or any thing, I only just now checked via the website to confirm because you asked.

I take it you have not sent Cohen a request made under the provisions of Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 for inspection of the documents specifically mentioned in the Particulars of Claim or a request for a copy the loan agreement to Robinson Way together with the £1 Statutory Fee?

These if not already done should be made ASAP.

You are correct. I have not done this, nor even aware I should.

So that's two letters, one to Cohen and one to Robinson Way?

What is the foundation for saying the debt is statute barred?

I have not made payment or acknowledged the debt in many years, at least 6.

What questions in the N181 do you need help with.

nem

Most of it probably (!)..

Under "A: Settlement" there are 3 questions.

First question:

1. Given that the rules require you to try and settle the claim before the hearing, do you want to attempt to settle at this stage? Yes/No

Given my position, I don't know what my answer is. I want to close the matter, obviously. But what do they mean by "settle"?

If it means, "I want to pay up," then my answer is clearly "NO." If they mean, "I want the claimant to withdraw because they have no legal basis to pursue this claim" then my answer would be "YES."

Yeah. I'm that stuck. Sigh.

Thanks again, nem. Much appreciated!

[MrPickles]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

National Debt Line were right to advise you to get legal advice on a Fast Track claim since if you lose the case you will have to pay all the other side's legal costs as well as the debt.

Hello Diana. Thank you for responding in addition to nem. I REALLY appreciate your time!

You say you've filed a Defence of Statute Barred. Is that all you pleaded?

Yes.

You say the original debt such as loan so when would the loan term have expired if it had completed its full term (natural length)?

I do not remember. It's long enough ago, and I'm care-free (ahem) enough to have forgotten the details.

Who was the original creditor? Some have more known shortcomings than others

Pretty sure it was a Sainsbury loan. That's all I remember.

Have you ever sent a formal s.77 - 79 CCA Request for a copy of your credit agreement. If not then you should do that asap.

Is this in addition to the 2 letters nem advised me to send? I really must find templates for these letters so I get familiar enough to answer properly (!)

The rules on Disclosure are much stricter in the Fast Track so your opponent will have to work hard to win this claim.

That sounds.. promising-ish.

What makes you so sure that the debt is SB? Do you have evidence of your last payment or acknowledgement of the debt? While the onus of proof will be on the Claimant, you also need to be sure that they can't prove you wrong.

I don't have dates of last payments. Not yet anyway (this weekend I plan to go through old statements to see what I can dig up.)

I'm only going on a hunch/sense that it is SB because I'm sure I've not paid a penny or acknowledged the debt in at least 6 years.

It is a gamble perhaps (I could be wrong) but I'm already facing a big debt and don't see much incentive to assume my memory is definitely wrong and to just start making payments.

You say NDL told you to file a Counterclaim. Did you do that and what would it be for (PPI perhaps)?

My bad. They didn't advise that, I meant that I filled in the form sheet that was titled for both Defence AND Counterclaim (and didn't pursue the latter part because I don't have a counterclaim.)

There will be other things to do but your Directions Questionnaire is the next most important thing, so what is the deadline for you to file it with the court and serve it on the other side? You've been sent that because the court acknowledges your Defence has been filed and has served it on the Claimant who has informed the court that it intends to continue with the proceedings.

Di

I got the court forms yesterday. I have until November 18th apparently.

Many thanks!

[nemesis45]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Hello nem,

Appreciate the rapid reply!



Good to know.

I originally wrote to Robinson Way many months ago regarding this debt, telling them the debt is statute barred. They replied that a payment was last received in December 2012, but they provided no proof of that.

Out of interest I checked my statements back to that time and there is no record of any payment at all. And I only have 1 bank account, and have had it since 2007.



I did it online via the money claim website. The website reports that my defence was received. I wasn't notified by post or any thing, I only just now checked via the website to confirm because you asked.



You are correct. I have not done this, nor even aware I should.

So that's two letters, one to Cohen and one to Robinson Way?



I have not made payment or acknowledged the debt in many years, at least 6.



Most of it probably (!)..

Under "A: Settlement" there are 3 questions.

First question:

1. Given that the rules require you to try and settle the claim before the hearing, do you want to attempt to settle at this stage? Yes/No

Given my position, I don't know what my answer is. I want to close the matter, obviously. But what do they mean by "settle"?

If it means, "I want to pay up," then my answer is clearly "NO." If they mean, "I want the claimant to withdraw because they have no legal basis to pursue this claim" then my answer would be "YES."

Yeah. I'm that stuck. Sigh.

Thanks again, nem. Much appreciated!

Yes both requests should be done asap, the CPR 31.4 (no fee) goes to Cohen ( templates for CPR and CCA requests are in the green box at the top of the page.

For the CCA request send a £1 postal order clearly marked " For Statutory Fee Only" to RW ( is should really be sent to Hoist but they have refused to comply and pass the requests to RW anyway)

They have 12 + 2 Working Days to comply. Do not be surprised if RW returns the fee, it does not affect the fact that failure to comply within the timescale renders the debt unenforceable Until an agreement or a compliant reconstituted one is produced.

It is for the claimant to prove that the alleged payment was made but you need to make sure of your ground, did you normally make payments by the same method e.g. Direct Debit, Bank Transfer, cheque by post, over a bank counter etc.

nem

[Diana M]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

I'm only going on a hunch/sense that it is SB because I'm sure I've not paid a penny or acknowledged the debt in at least 6 years.

It is a gamble perhaps (I could be wrong)

Well you may be able to file an Amended Defence later if you discover you are wrong. The expiry date of the loan may be a factor in determining SB not just the last payment date. The subsequent Default date may be relevant too.

At the moment you've put all your eggs in one basket (SB only Defence). It's likely the Claimant may have other failings but if you've not pleaded them then you can't argue them in court (unless or until you do).

You say the Claimant maintains that you made a payment in December 2012 but has not yet provided proof. I suppose they don't really have to at this stage. That's why I suggested you send a SAR to the original creditor (if they still owned the debt in 2012) or to whomever purchased the debt after that (i.e. you would send 2 SARs).

Post up a typed copy of the Particulars of Claim in case that sheds some more light on things.

Di

[nemesis45]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Hello Mr P'

Out of interest does the loan account appear on your credit reference files?

nem

[MrPickles]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Regarding the CPR.

I'm looking at the template, and in red it says:

NB: ONLY LIST HERE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE MENTIONED IN THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM ON THE FRONT OF THE CLAIM FORM - eg. IF THEY DON'T MENTION ' DEFAULT NOTICE' YOU CANNOT ASK FOR IT UNDER CPR 31.14, IF THEY MENTION CONTRACT rather than AGREEMENT - ask for the CONTRACT...IF IN DOUBT TYPE OUT THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM AND ASK ON THE FORUM

I will now type out the particulars here

-->

"This claim is for the sum of XXXX in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility, personal loan and credit card arrears under account no. xxxx The debt was legally assigned by Robinson Way Limited (EX SAINSBURYS) to the Claimant and notice has been served. The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.

The Claimant claims:

1. The sum of xxx
2. Interest pursuant to s69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00percent from the 7/09/10 to the date hereof 2188 is the sum of xxxx
3. Future interest accruing at the daily rate of xx
4. Costs

<--

First, I bolded and underlined "2188" under :2. Interest pursuant..." section because I've no idea what "2188" is supposed to be?!

Anyway.

Out of that, with regards to CPR template, which documents can I ask for?

Much appreciated!

Also, if I have until November 18th to return the Fast Track forms, does that mean I just about have time to let this CPR process play out in full?

Thank you!

[MrPickles]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Wow, I'm feeling overwhelmed. This is head spinning stuff.

Is there someone I can pay who will just do all this for me, and at what cost?!

I can see the appeal of that now I'm looking at it all.

[nemesis45]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Regarding the CPR.

I'm looking at the template, and in red it says:

NB: ONLY LIST HERE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE MENTIONED IN THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM ON THE FRONT OF THE CLAIM FORM - eg. IF THEY DON'T MENTION ' DEFAULT NOTICE' YOU CANNOT ASK FOR IT UNDER CPR 31.14, IF THEY MENTION CONTRACT rather than AGREEMENT - ask for the CONTRACT...IF IN DOUBT TYPE OUT THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM AND ASK ON THE FORUM

I will now type out the particulars here

-->

"This claim is for the sum of XXXX in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility, personal loan and credit card arrears under account no. xxxx The debt was legally assigned by Robinson Way Limited (EX SAINSBURYS) to the Claimant and notice has been served. The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.

The Claimant claims:

1. The sum of xxx
2. Interest pursuant to s69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00percent from the 7/09/10 to the date hereof 2188 is the sum of xxxx
3. Future interest accruing at the daily rate of xx
4. Costs

<--

First, I bolded and underlined "2188" under :2. Interest pursuant..." section because I've no idea what "2188" is supposed to be?!

Anyway.

Out of that, with regards to CPR template, which documents can I ask for?

Much appreciated!

Also, if I have until November 18th to return the Fast Track forms, does that mean I just about have time to let this CPR process play out in full?

Thank you!

OK a different picturethe claim is for all your accounts consolidated into one claim is that correct ?

nem

[nemesis45]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

Wow, I'm feeling overwhelmed. This is head spinning stuff.

Is there someone I can pay who will just do all this for me, and at what cost?!

I can see the appeal of that now I'm looking at it all.

Yes it can be very confusing and one worries more about putting a foot wrong and causing problems.

I would recommend seeking qualified legal advice in your home locality if you are worried about this.

There's a tab at the top right hand side of the forum page " find a solicitor " LB Compare site may have someone local to you.

nem

[Diana M]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

it can be very confusing and one worries more about putting a foot wrong and causing problems.

I would recommend seeking qualified legal advice in your home locality if you are worried about this.

Thanks to email, phones and Skype etc. a Defendant doesn't need a solicitor local to them, but they would need a solicitor who understands Consumer Credit law (a specialist area) and a firm which preferably will offer a CFA (No Win No Fee) agreement.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd vs MrPickles

I have until November 18th to return the Fast Track forms, does that mean I just about have time to let this CPR process play out in full?

That depends on what comes back from your CCA Request and your CPR 31.14 Request (if anything) and whether that prompts you to file an Amended Defence or triggers a Part 18 Request.

From what you have posted they are claiming three financial products which were consolidated into one. The loan and the credit card would have been regulated agreements.

You really do need that SAR to the original creditor.

According to the POC the debt was assigned by Sainsbury's to Robinson Way Ltd not directly to Hoist the Claimant (or to MKDP which was bought by Hoist). It doesn't give a date to help with that assignment information. The Claimant will have to prove both assignments were in order.

Di