**CASE DISMISSED** HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

[Kiwi2016]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

[MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION]

Hi Nem, thank you for the swift response. Do you suggest I include all the details of how and when the CCA request was initially made, along with how long it took to get a response, and detail what (incomplete) documents I then received, or shall I leave my defence as it reads above ? Secondly, is point 13 of the defence something I should leave in or take out in your opinion ? Thnanks

[Kiwi2016]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

[MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION]

Hi Nem, thank you for the swift response. Do you suggest I include all the details of how and when the CCA request was initially made, along with how long it took to get a response, and detail what (incomplete) documents I then received, or shall I leave my defence as it reads above ? Secondly, is point 13 of the defence something I should leave in or take out in your opinion ? Thnanks

[Kiwi2016]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

[MENTION=42011]Nem[/MENTION]esis

Sorry I just read this message from you.

In the email to the Claimant I said I will be sending it by post. I can't recall getting a postal order sent out though. In the letter they said the following:

"We write in respect of the above outstanding matter and in reply to your electronic mail received on the xx xx 2015, the contents of which have been noted.
Please find enclosed the following: -
1. A copy of your original agreement and a true copy of your credit agreement at the time the account was opened and at the point of default.
2. Statements from the xx/xx/06 to the xx/xx/xx to show how arrears have accrued.

In accordance with your request , the statement of account is as follows :-
(a) The state of the account = £xxxxx outstanding
(b) The amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement.......
(c) The amounts and dues dates of any payments which.......

This fulfils our obligation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

They failed to include anything to do with the default notice. As you have seen above, the documents that were supplied were not legible in places and certain information had been crossed out by hand and amended.

[Amethyst]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

As you have received the documents you need to be arguing the faults with the CCA and why it is non compliant ( illegible / incomplete etc ) which can lead to a ''Therefore,... The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s 78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement." part. Although having a look at what they sent you the actual doc might be illegible in places but they have provided a legible recon alongside it - does that include all of the terms ?

[Kiwi2016]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]

Hello, the recon appears to be a complete document, but because it's not an original agreement, I can not for certain say that it is complete or if the terms are the same as the original document signed in 2006. How about the fact that the default notice and assignment of the debt to the Claimant are no where to be seen in all of this ? Thanks

[nemesis45]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

@nemesis45

Hi Nem, thank you for the swift response. Do you suggest I include all the details of how and when the CCA request was initially made, along with how long it took to get a response, and detail what (incomplete) documents I then received, or shall I leave my defence as it reads above ? Secondly, is point 13 of the defence something I should leave in or take out in your opinion ? Thnanks

Hello Kiwi,
13 is in my opinion fine!

Certainly add the detail of the CCA request mess and the fact that it took 2 1/2 months to supply an incomplete and no compliant reconstituted agreement.

nem

[Kiwi2016]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

@nemesis45
@Amethyst


Hi there, I have updated my defence. I'd be grateful if you could have a read of it and let me know if it's solid enough to file or if you think it can be improved in any way. I will update the generic bits just before filing. I have never done this before and have a question about filing my defence; Do I have to supply the CCA doc's sent by the Claimant to me to the court to form part of the defence ?
Thanks, Kiwi


1: I received the claim [Claim Number] from the [Name of Court - often Northampton or Salford] County Court on [Date you received the claim] - to be amended


2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.


3: This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


4: It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with the Original Creditor Halifax Plc for provision of credit.


5: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.


6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from the Original Creditor to 1st Credit Limited on 18/11/13. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.


7. It is denied that the Original Creditor served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.


8: On 30/11/15 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Judge and Priestley LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment .


9. Judge and Priestley LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.


10. On the 30/11/15 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to the Claimant, 1st Credit Limited, pursuant to sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.


10.1 It took the Claimant 2.5 months to supply an incomplete and no compliant reconstituted agreement.


10.2 A photocopy of the credit card application was sent by the Claimant, which has not been signed by the applicant. Furthermore, without the knowledge of the applicant details have been crossed out on the application form and amended by hand, presumably by an employee of the Original Creditor. There is no mention of either the interest rate or the credit limit.


10.3 A photocopy of the credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act of 1974 was provided and is illegible in the sections that are to clearly state the full name and address of the applicant. The agreed interest rate is also illegible and there is no clear mention of the credit limit.


10.4 The Claimant failed to provide the default notice and neither did they provide the deed of assignment forms.


11. The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.


12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.


13. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.


14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.


16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.


Statement of Truth


The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.






Signed …………………………………………


Dated ..........................................

[nemesis45]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

@nemesis45
@Amethyst


Hi there, I have updated my defence. I'd be grateful if you could have a read of it and let me know if it's solid enough to file or if you think it can be improved in any way. I will update the generic bits just before filing. I have never done this before and have a question about filing my defence; Do I have to supply the CCA doc's sent by the Claimant to me to the court to form part of the defence ?
Thanks, Kiwi


1: I received the claim [Claim Number] from the [Name of Court - often Northampton or Salford] County Court on [Date you received the claim] - to be amended


2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.


3: This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


4: It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with the Original Creditor Halifax Plc for provision of credit.


5: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.


6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from the Original Creditor to 1st Credit Limited on 18/11/13. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.


7. It is denied that the Original Creditor served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.


8: On 30/11/15 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Judge and Priestley LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment .


9. Judge and Priestley LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.


10. On the 30/11/15 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to the Claimant, 1st Credit Limited, pursuant to sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.


10.1 It took the Claimant 2.5 months to supply an incomplete and no compliant reconstituted agreement.


10.2 A photocopy of the credit card application was sent by the Claimant, which has not been signed by the applicant. Furthermore, without the knowledge of the applicant details have been crossed out on the application form and amended by hand, presumably by an employee of the Original Creditor. There is no mention of either the interest rate or the credit limit.


10.3 A photocopy of the credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act of 1974 was provided and is illegible in the sections that are to clearly state the full name and address of the applicant. The agreed interest rate is also illegible and there is no clear mention of the credit limit.


10.4 The Claimant failed to provide the default notice and neither did they provide the deed of assignment forms You are not entitled to the Deed of Assignment. The Claimant does not have to issue a DN the original claimant does this and the default date must remain as filed by the OC. ( delete 10.4.


11. The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.


12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.


13. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.


14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.


16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.


Statement of Truth


The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.






Signed …………………………………………


Dated ..........................................

See above.

nem

[Diana M]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

Re: 10.4

Who says the Defendant is not entitled to disclosure of the Deed of Assignment?

Di

[nemesis45]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

Re: 10.4

Who says the Defendant is not entitled to disclosure of the Deed of Assignment?

Di

It is considered confidential and commercially sensitive being the " contract " between a debt purchaser and the entity selling the debt.

Lord Denning (MR) did rule that a debtor could require site of a deed of assignment it has proved impractical and or little use those that I know of being disclosed have been so extremely redacted and of no help.

One sees requests for site of deeds of assignment declined by creditors/debt purchasers regularly on LB, of course it is possible to ask a judge to order disclosure but it has proved pointless something one might expect someone with experience of consumer credit matters to be aware of.

nem

[Diana M]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

One sees requests for site of deeds of assignment declined by creditors/debt purchasers regularly on LB, of course it is possible to ask a judge to order disclosure but it has proved pointless something one might expect someone with experience of consumer credit matters to be aware of.

I agree it's a pity that LIPs are being declined requests to see Deeds of Assignment by creditors and/or debt purchasers.

However I can't agree that it's "pointless" to seek disclosure from the court.

I'm aware of this fact (that it's not pointless) based on experience of consumer credit litigation.

Or to put it more simply, if you don't ask you don't get.

We always ask, whether we get them or not, and why they may be relevant, is a 'trade secret' not to be revealed on the internet for all to see

Di

[nemesis45]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

I agree it's a pity that LIPs are being declined requests to see Deeds of Assignment by creditors and/or debt purchasers.

However I can't agree that it's "pointless" to seek disclosure from the court.

I'm aware of this fact (that it's not pointless) based on experience of consumer credit litigation.

Or to put it more simply, if you don't ask you don't get.

We always ask, whether we get them or not, and why they may be relevant, is a 'trade secret' not to be revealed on the internet for all to see

Di

The deed is not unfortunately specific to individual debts and is commercially sensitive because of this.

Unless the Deed of Assignment is specifically mentioned in the POC (rather than a NOA) It would not be provided under the provisions of CPR31.14 it is in this situation that we fined requests for the DOA most often.

nem

nem

[Diana M]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

The deed is not unfortunately specific to individual debts and is commercially sensitive because of this.

Unless the Deed of Assignment is specifically mentioned in the POC (rather than a NOA) It would not be provided under the provisions of CPR31.14 it is in this situation that we fined requests for the DOA most often.

You're entitled to your opinion based on this forum's experience, as am I (entitled to an opinion) based on our litigation experience.

We'll just have to agree to disagree for reasons which I can't and won't disclose

Di

[Kiwi2016]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION]

Hello, I am ready to file my defence and would appreciate it if you could have a final look at it before I file it online today. If you feel there is any way I can improve on it please do let me know. Many thanks ! Kiwi

1: I received the claim xxxxxx from the xxxxxxxxxx County Court on xx xxxxxxx 2016


2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.


3: This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


4: It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with the Original Creditor Halifax Plc for provision of credit.


5: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.


6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from the Original Creditor to 1st Credit Limited on 18/11/13. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.


7. It is denied that the Original Creditor served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.


8: On 30/11/15 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Judge and Priestley LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment .


9. Judge and Priestley LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.


10. On the 30/11/15 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to the Claimant, 1st Credit Limited, pursuant to sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.


10.1 It took the Claimant 2.5 months to supply an incomplete and no compliant reconstituted agreement.


10.2 A photocopy of the credit card application was sent by the Claimant, which has not been signed by the applicant. There is no mention of either the interest rate or the credit limit.


10.3 A phootcopy of the credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act of 1974 was provided and is illegible in the sections that are to clearly state the full name and address of the applicant. The agreed interest rate is also illegible and there is no clear mention of the credit limit.


11. The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.


12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.


13. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.


14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.


16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.


Statement of Truth


The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.






Signed …………………………………………


Dated ..........................................

[Kiwi2016]

Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION]

Hi, I trust you're well. Further to my communication with you at the end of September, regarding the topic of this thread, I filed my defence online. A month later I got a cover letter from 1st Credit stating that they enclose a Notice of Change of Legal Representative (from J&P to 1st Credit (finance) Ltd). They also enclosed a further copy of the Notice of Assignment (apparently) sent to me in November 2013 to a previous address and an introductory letter and further Notice of Assignment (apparently) sent to me on in August 2015 to my current address. I can hand on heart say that I have never seem these letters that have been enclosed in the latest correspondence.

Where do I now stand regarding the above in relation to the following point I made in my defence?
"8: On 30/11/15 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Judge and Priestley LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment .
9. Judge and Priestley LLP has not sent any of these documents to me."

Secondly, as of June or July 2017, would the debt become statute barred by default IF a judgement hasn't been reached or is this now irrelevant as I have acknowledged the claim?

Is there anything else I should take in to consideration at this time ? I am about to file the directions questionnaire. The Claimants DQ says they are willing to go for mediation. How would you advise me to proceed?

Many thanks,
KIwi