**Discontinued**County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

[Marvins]

Afternoon everyone and I apologise as this is my first post!

I have trolled the internet trying to find the most appropriate way to defend against a claim form I received on the 14/12/2015

In summary they have stated that I owe them £6028.62 from a debt that was active on the 29/09/2008

since then no acknowledgement of the debt have been given or payments made, partly to the fact that I was away all the time in the military and I wasn't aware that I still had to pay it.

I have sent the document off stating that I will be defending against all of this claim, also having the the 14 day time limit extended to 28 days.

My problem is what I have to say and what can I expect from me claiming Statute Barred in the court? I was made aware that hearing will take place that I have to attend but the court is 200+ miles away from me which is something id like to contest if possible?

The biggest problem I have is what to write to the Court in my defense as nothing is clearly outlined online, I've just seen letters you send to DCA's and creditors before it reaches court, stating that under Section 5 of the Limitations Act that No debt is Enforceable after 6 years. But what do I write on a defense form, the same thing?

[nemesis45]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

Good afternoon Marvins, welcome to LB.

Please post a copy of the particulars of claim (Form N1) or type it verbatim
after removing your name address and the claim number.

What type of account was this, loan, card, HP?

Does the debt appear on your credit files? You can check Noddle Free Online.

Don't worry about the court IF this goes to trial it will be at the nearest court hearing
centre to your home.

Have you requested the documents mentioned in the statement of claim from the claimants
solicitors?

Or if appropriate requested a copy of the agreement/contract direct from the claimant.

Once we have these details we can get a defence sorted.
nem.

[Marvins]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

Unfortunately I'm in work now so I do not have the documents to hand, but I have read through a post made by someone else very recently on these forums and it would seem we are both being targeted by the same firm but with two different solicitors representing the cases.

The company in question is Hillesden Security Limited but I am being pursued by Mortimer Clarke solicitors instead.

The case is pretty much the same with mine being about a car hire purchase agreement, but the debt amount in dispute, the person allegedly owning it (me) and the solicitors being used.

The hire purchase agreement was also with black horse finance in 2008 and no payments or written acknowledgment has been given since September/October 2008.

Should I just follow the same guild lines set out on the other forum that you have commented on created by Ali42?

[nemesis45]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

Unfortunately I'm in work now so I do not have the documents to hand, but I have read through a post made by someone else very recently on these forums and it would seem we are both being targeted by the same firm but with two different solicitors representing the cases.

The company in question is Hillesden Security Limited but I am being pursued by Mortimer Clarke solicitors instead.

The case is pretty much the same with mine being about a car hire purchase agreement, but the debt amount in dispute, the person allegedly owning it (me) and the solicitors being used.

The hire purchase agreement was also with black horse finance in 2008 and no payments or written acknowledgment has been given since September/October 2008.

Should I just follow the same guild lines set out on the other forum that you have commented on created by Ali42?

Hello Marvins,

I have drafted a defence for Ali 42, yes the guidelines are the same ( see post 15 on Ali's thread)

nem.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately I'm in work now so I do not have the documents to hand, but I have read through a post made by someone else very recently on these forums and it would seem we are both being targeted by the same firm but with two different solicitors representing the cases.

The company in question is Hillesden Security Limited but I am being pursued by Mortimer Clarke solicitors instead.

The case is pretty much the same with mine being about a car hire purchase agreement, but the debt amount in dispute, the person allegedly owning it (me) and the solicitors being used.

The hire purchase agreement was also with black horse finance in 2008 and no payments or written acknowledgment has been given since September/October 2008.

Should I just follow the same guild lines set out on the other forum that you have commented on created by Ali42?

Hello Marvins,

I have drafted a defence for Ali 42, yes the guidelines are the same ( see post 15 on Ali's thread)

nem.

[Joany1212]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

Hi Marvins

I have had the exact same court papers however my agreement was started in 2005 with black horse, I have made no contact/payment since about 2007.

Have you filed a defence as yet? I have looked at the ALI42 page but cant understand what i'm supposed to put on the court papers??

[Marvins]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

I have a copy on my computer of what I sent to the court, I'll post it up later as its on my computer.

I've received a letter from Hillesden today Nem, it's them trying to buy more time saying they don't have the agreement but are trying to get it from black horse and will "update in 21 days."

Am I correct in thinking this puts them in breach of the request and trying to push for a CCJ without relevant documentation to back their claim?

The solicitors Mortimer Clarke have also been briefed in writing with a CCA request as well as other requests, I have refused acknowledgement and they were told that I'll be defending in full if they didn't withdraw the case on the grounds that it is statute barred, I haven't heard from them though and they needed to respond by today at the latest. (Another Breach, unlucky.)

They've also sent me the debt sale agreement from the 16th of February 2007.... The debt wasn't even active till early 2008... So I'm wondering what that's all about? I'll try and post pictures of possible later on my laptop.

Any help is always appreciated, thanks Nem!

[Marvins]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

I have revived a letter from Motimer Clarke solicitors stating that the debt is not statue barred because the "agreement wasn't terminated."

They have said that the six year limitation period only runs from the latest date on which:

1. A payment was made towards the debt; or
2. The agreement was terminated; or
3. You acknowledged the debt in writing.

They have no evidence to support but state that they were instructed that the "agreement was terminated on the 23/12/2010 therefore proceedings were issues within the 6 year limitation period, and so the claim isn't statute barred. If you disagree please explain why, alternatively we invite you to withdraw your defence and put forward repayment proposals."

They haven't given me any information regarding the CPR or CCA request, just thrown me a date and said the agreement was terminated at the time they say with no proof provided.

What are their grounds here?

[Marvins]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

I have drafted a defence for Ali 42, yes the guidelines are the same ( see post 15 on Ali's thread)

nem.

Can you please see the above, thanks Nem!

[nemesis45]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

I have revived a letter from Motimer Clarke solicitors stating that the debt is not statue barred because the "agreement wasn't terminated."

They have said that the six year limitation period only runs from the latest date on which:

1. A payment was made towards the debt; or
2. The agreement was terminated; or
3. You acknowledged the debt in writing.

They have no evidence to support but state that they were instructed that the "agreement was terminated on the 23/12/2010 therefore proceedings were issues within the 6 year limitation period, and so the claim isn't statute barred. If you disagree please explain why, alternatively we invite you to withdraw your defence and put forward repayment proposals."

They haven't given me any information regarding the CPR or CCA request, just thrown me a date and said the agreement was terminated at the time they say with no proof provided.

What are their grounds here?

The relevant date for the Limitation Act 1980 would be the date the creditor could first demand repayment of the full outstanding balance with immediate effect.

i.e A Demand for Immediate Repayment and/ or Final Demand.

In the Court of appeal 2104 BMW Finance - v - Hart Their Lordships averred that the default date was to be considered the start of the relevant 6 year period this
has later been accepted I think to be as stated above.

The onus of proof that the debt was not statute barred Prior to the date on which the claim was issued falls entirely upon the claimant.
i.e. Unequivocal Proof!

None of their statements make sense.
1. The date a Was Due and Not Made after which no payment was ever made.
2. See BMW - v - Hart.
3. I presume this has not happened.

nem

[Marvins]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

The relevant date for the Limitation Act 1980 would be the date the creditor could first demand repayment of the full outstanding balance with immediate effect.

i.e A Demand for Immediate Repayment and/ or Final Demand.

In the Court of appeal 2104 BMW Finance - v - Hart Their Lordships averred that the default date was to be considered the start of the relevant 6 year period this
has later been accepted I think to be as stated above.

The onus of proof that the debt was not statute barred Prior to the date on which the claim was issued falls entirely upon the claimant.
i.e. Unequivocal Proof!

None of their statements make sense.
1. The date a Was Due and Not Made after which no payment was ever made.
2. See BMW - v - Hart.
3. I presume this has not happened.

nem

They currently haven't served me with any evidence or information regarding the account and have requested for me to share what relevant documentation i have relating to the agreement with them.... LOL

1. last payment XX/10/2008 not sure on the exact day!
2. Does that leave my defence in the gutter? There is no record of a default on my credit file as im presuming it has been removed due to being well over 6 years...
3. No, thats not happened

It seems to me they are playing blind scare tactics, coercing people into paying without any supporting evidence, no doubt some people will worry or ignore these court proceedings and that's what they are relying on as both Hillesden and Mortimer Clarke are yet to issue me any such documents or information relation to the original account CCA or CPR requests have not been met.

I read BMW v Hart but i didn't fully understand the case which is why I've asked is my defence in the gutter... Whats my best course of action now?

[nemesis45]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

They currently haven't served me with any evidence or information regarding the account and have requested for me to share what relevant documentation i have relating to the agreement with them.... LOL

1. last payment XX/10/2008 not sure on the exact day!
2. Does that leave my defence in the gutter? There is no record of a default on my credit file as im presuming it has been removed due to being well over 6 years...
3. No, thats not happened

It seems to me they are playing blind scare tactics, coercing people into paying without any supporting evidence, no doubt some people will worry or ignore these court proceedings and that's what they are relying on as both Hillesden and Mortimer Clarke are yet to issue me any such documents or information relation to the original account CCA or CPR requests have not been met.

I read BMW v Hart but i didn't fully understand the case which is why I've asked is my defence in the gutter... Whats my best course of action now?

No Ithink BMW serves you well, It is widely accepted that the Formal Demands are the start of the relevant 6 year period.

Final Payment 10 /2008 1st demand say 01/2009 Final Demand late 01/2009 start of relevant 6 year period.

They are in my opinion playing silly buggers in the hope you will give up.

nem

[Marvins]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

No Ithink BMW serves you well, It is widely accepted that the Formal Demands are the start of the relevant 6 year period.

Final Payment 10 /2008 1st demand say 01/2009 Final Demand late 01/2009 start of relevant 6 year period.

They are in my opinion playing silly buggers in the hope you will give up.

nem

Thank God! Thank you Nem!

here are the letter sent to me from both the solicitors and agents, from what i can see it just seems like they are blowing smoke...

What is your take on the letters after my requests sent and demanding they stop the proceedings?

[nemesis45]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

There instructions are from a client desperate for judgement!!

nem

[Marvins]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

There instructions are from a client desperate for judgement!!

nem

Hi Nem!

After filing my defence using the example given on these forums, I have received the following letter back from Mortimer Clarke Solicitors... (please find the attached.)

Paragraph 4 of the quoted defence doesn't match up with what they are saying?

Paragraph 5 is only them stating that, no actual evidence has been given other than their word on paper in previous letters sent.

I have sent letters directly to them stating that the debt falls under statute barred but i didn't file it in my defence, will this be a problem?

Can you please help and me advise on how I should proceed with this?

The defence used was the following:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1: I received the claim [Claim Number] from the [Name of Court - often Northampton or Salford] County Court on [Date you received the claim]

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3: This claim [is for/ appears to be for] a [Credit Card / Loan / Catalogue Account] agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4: [It is admitted/denied] that the Defendant has [previously] entered into [an agreement/agreements] with [Original Creditor /Claimant] for provision of credit.

4: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

[5. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.]

6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from [Original Creditor] to [Claimant] on [Date]. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

7. It is denied that [Original Creditor] served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

8: On the [Date] I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to[Claimant's Solicitor]. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the [Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment] .

9. [Claimant's Solicitor] has not sent any of these documents to me.

10. On the [Date] I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to [Claimant] pursuant to section [77 or 78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

11. The Claimant has failed to comply with [s77 (1) / s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

[12: I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5), but they have declined.] or [The Parties agreed to an extension to the time period allowed for filing of my defence under CPR 15.5 to allow the Claimants additional time to produce the relevant documentation to evidence their claim, however they have failed to do so.]

13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

14. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

15. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.



Signed …………………………………………

Dated .................................................. ....

[Nibbler]

Re: County court claim for Statute Barred Debt

I think you can perhaps amend if required? [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]