Discontinued - Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [ WON !!!! ]

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

It doesn't have to be in legalese, plain english is important, clear, concise, true ... but if there is primary legislation your defence relies on you should mention it (eg Consumer Credit Act or Limitations Act etc) Happy to look over a draft xx

[CaptainBiscuit]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Lovely. I'll get writing and see what you guys think. Cheers again for the support!

[CaptainBiscuit]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

The defendant denies knowledge of any debt owed to the claimant and is embarrassed by the lack of details in the Particulars Of Claim.

The defendant confirms that the account number listed in the Particulars is for a former Lloyds TSB current account in the defendant's name, however knows of no agreement for 'finance and/or services and/or goods' with the original creditor. The defendant puts the claimant/claimant's solicitor to strict proof of each and every fact pleaded in their Particulars Of Claim.


The defendant made a written request to the claimant/solicitor on 08 June 2014 requesting the disclosure and production of documents relating to the claim, under the Civil Procedure Rules section 31.14. The claimant refused to comply with this CPR request, stating that the requirement of attaching documents is unnecessary under Practice Direction 7C, point 1.4, and that the Civil Procedure Rules do not apply as this claim will 'most properly be allocated to the Small Claims Track'. The defendant does not feel this is sufficient reason to refuse the production of documents; it is for the Court to decide which track the claim will assigned to.


The defendant has also contacted the original creditor to obtain statements of account for the bank account listed in the Particulars Of Claim, but neither Lloyds nor TSB have been able to provide any relevant information.

The defendant feels that it is impossible to defend against a claim of which he has no knowledge, and of which there is no information that can be used to construct a proper defence.

The Defendant seeks the Claimants claim to be dismissed with an order as to costs thrown away in favour of the Defendant.

Is that sufficient, do you think?

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Pretty much, although I hate saying 'embarassed', I know we call it an embarrased defence, but you do have a vague idea what the claim is for so it's not all that embarassing. I've taken out the reasons for them turning down the CPR request ( as they are slightly valid reasons and we don't want to give the court an excuse) so concentrate of the lack of information and lack of prior notice and contact from the claimants.





1. The Defendant confirms that the account number listed in the claim is for a Lloyds TSB current account formerly held by the Defendant, however is unaware of any debt owing to Lloyds TSB.

2. The Defendant has not had any contact with Lloyds TSB regarding the current account since around 2007.

2. The Defendant is unaware of having purchased any goods or services from Lloyds TSB at any time.

3. The Defendant made a written request to the claimants on 08 June 2014 requesting inspection of documents relating to the claim, under the Civil Procedure Rules section 31.14, including the agreement, default notice and notice of assignment.

4. The Claimant refused to comply with this request. The defendant feels that it is impossible to defend against a claim when there is no information with which to construct a proper defence, nor indeed, admission.

5. The particulars of claim state that the account was assigned to / purchased by Lowell Portfolio, and says that notice was served pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925. The Defendant has not received any notification of this assignment.

6. The Defendant received one letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors regarding the debt less than 24 hours before receipt of the County Court claim form. Prior to this the Defendant has had no contact with the Claimants or their solicitors.

6. The Claimant has failed to detail how the sum claimed has accrued and is considered due.

7. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation.

8. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.



Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

[CaptainBiscuit]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

That is absolutely magnificent, concise and accurate. Cheers!

1. The defendant contends that the Particulars Of Claim are very vague and lack the necessary detail to construct a proper defence.

2. Paragraph one is denied. The defendant has never knowlingly made such an agreement and the sum of £792.61 holds no particular significance.

3. The defendant is unaware of any assignment and has had no dealings with 'Lowell Portfolio I Ltd'.

4. The contents of Paragaph 3 are noted. The defendant previously held a bank account with Lloyds TSB, but has never had any dealings with Lloyds as an independent company.

5. Paragraph 4 is denied.

6. Paragraph 5 is denied.


On 08 June 2014 the defendant made a written CPR 31.14 request to the claimant/solicitor requesting the disclosure and production of documents relating to the claim.

The claimant refused to comply with this CPR request, stating that the requirement of attaching documents with the Particulars Of Claim is unnecessary under Practice Direction 7C, point 1.4, and that the Civil Procedure Rules do not apply as this claim will 'most properly be allocated to the Small Claims Track'. The defendant does not feel this is sufficient reason to refuse the production of documents; it is for the Court to decide to which track the claim will assigned.

The claimant's non-compliance has hampered my efforts to clarify their claim. Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and
(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
(c) show Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974
(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;


As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. Alternatively if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

Until such time the Claimant can comply with my request for a copy of the Overdraft facility agreement/Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 it relies upon they are prevented from enforcing or requesting any relief as pursuant to the CCA 1974.

I just finished that too! I think I like the conciseness of yours though, any thoughts?

[CaptainBiscuit]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

1. The defendant contends that the Particulars Of Claim are vague and lack the necessary detail to construct a proper defence.
2. Paragraph one is denied. The defendant has never knowingly made such an agreement. If - which is not admitted - such an agreement exists, the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. I do not have in my possession any such agreement and am not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.
3. The defendant is unaware of any assignment or purchase and has had no dealings with 'Lowell Portfolio I Ltd'. The claimant is again put to strict proof in this regard.
4. The contents of Paragraph 3 are noted. The defendant previously held a bank account with Lloyds TSB but has never had any dealings with Lloyds as an independent company.
5. Paragraph 4 is denied.
6. Paragraph 5 is denied.
7. On 08 June 2014 the defendant made a written CPR 31.14 request for the disclosure and production of documents relating to the claim.
8. The claimant refused to comply with this CPR request, stating that the requirement of attaching documents with the Particulars Of Claim is unnecessary under Practice Direction 7C, point 1.4, and that the Civil Procedure Rules do not apply as this claim will 'most properly be allocated to the Small Claims Track'.
9. The defendant does not feel this is sufficient reason to refuse the production of documents; it is for the Court to decide to which track the claim will assigned.


The claimant's non-compliance has hampered my efforts to clarify their claim. Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the
Claimant; and
(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
(c) show Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the
CCA1974
(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;


As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. No documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered nor have any dates of agreement been stated which the defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon, and so the claimant's claim appears without merit.

The defendant seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out or otherwise is dismissed on on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed.
Alternatively, if the court decides not to strike out the Claimant’s case it is requested that the court orders full disclosure of the requested documents pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules. The Defendant respectfully asks the permission of the court to amend this defence if or when the Claimant provides full disclosure of the requested documents and allows inspection of the original documents.

Ok, I think this is what I'm going to submit. Any major problems?

[Celestine]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Reading through this, I do think more should be made of the potential limitation defence. Have you checked your credit file to see the actual default date?

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

I prefer mine, sorry .... your second para says you never knowingly made such an agreement but also admit you had an account with Lloyds. The Lloyds / Lloyds TSB just feels finickity for the sake of it. I like the referring to paragraphs - although I think calling the POC as having paragraphs in the first place makes it sounds like there is more to it that there is.

Cel - I haven't made much of the SB bit as we're very vague about what the claim could be about, because their particulars are so vague, so its more of a hint than an outright declaration.

[Celestine]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

I do agree, Ames defence is more convincing.

On the LA angle, seems no harm in at least putting the claimant to strict proof that the claim isn't time barred according to LA 1980??

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Yip I concur

Maybe add to 2.... or add a strict proof thereof in if you want to be harder....



2. The Defendant has not had any contact with Lloyds TSB regarding the current account since around 2007. Therefore the Defendant believes if there is any debt it would be time barred pursuant to section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980.

[CaptainBiscuit]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Thanks guys, I can't be sure when the last time I contacted em was but I'll amend the defense and send it off today. Will keep you posted, you've been a massive, massive help.

[CaptainBiscuit]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Hello again, Beagles! OK, so big update: I submitted my defence and the case was allocated to the Small Claims track as expected.

My hearing is this Monday 14th at my local county court. What do I need to do beforehand? I'm going to print out copies of my statement and the letters back and forth just for my own reference.

I haven't heard a thing from Bryan Carter since I submitted my defence, and certainly haven't had copies of any documents from them. So what the hell is their case going to be with zero proof? Are they hoping I won't turn up? Are they going to turn up at all? Because I don't see how it's possible for them to claim money from me with absolutely NOTHING to back it up...

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

HAve you had nothing else from court either? No directions to get witness statement in14 days before or anything?

Monday is the 10th btw

[CaptainBiscuit]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Thanks for the correction, I'd put the wrong bloody day in my phone :/

I've heard nothing from anyone since the Notice of Allocation on Sep 8th. That notice does include instructions on sending witness statements, documents, experts etc though none of it seemed necessary for my side.

Should have prepared anything? I didn't bother serving copies of the letters from them or anything like that to use at the hearing - frankly I don't have anything to say there beyond 'I have no idea what this debt could be and I want to see some paperwork please'. What's the dress code like at these hearings by the way?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan Carter/Lowell/Lloyds vs CaptainBiscuit [advice desperately sought!]

Thanks for the correction, I'd put the wrong bloody day in my phone :/

I've heard nothing from anyone since the Notice of Allocation on Sep 8th. That notice does include instructions on sending witness statements, documents, experts etc though none of it seemed necessary for my side.

Should have prepared anything? I didn't bother serving copies of the letters from them or anything like that to use at the hearing - frankly I don't have anything to say there beyond 'I have no idea what this debt could be and I want to see some paperwork please'. What's the dress code like at these hearings by the way?

This guide for litigants in person may be helpful: http://barcouncil.org.uk/media/20310...online_use.pdf

Dress for success
Dress as smartly as you can for court. If you have a suit (including a tie for men), then wear it. If you do not have a suit, there is no need to buy one specially.
Last minute cramming
Before you leave, re-read the most important documents, including your witness statement and any submissions you are planning to make to the court. It is particularly
useful to practise saying aloud, either to yourself or to a friend or family member, the key things that you want to tell the court.
Be early
If at all possible, be at least one hour early for court. If you are late, the court might not wait for you. The Hearing may be cancelled, or the court could even go ahead without
you. There is also a lot to be done before the Hearing begins.
Bring a friend
If possible, ask someone you know and trust to come to court with you. They may be able to help you keep calm and focused, assist you in keeping your papers together, and help with taking notes.