Urgent help needed Case lost to Lowells / BW Legal through court.

[Roddaz77]

Hi guys just a quick question please on a General form of judgment or order.

My friend has had a letter from the courts and BW Legal.

Ordered that they pay total £3k (shes a single mum on Univeral Credit) in 14 days.

Whats her options for paying this off. She knows she will have a CCJ regardless but she cant afford to pay the £600 costs and £148 interest. What can she do shes in absolute bits.

[Amethyst]

Hi Roddaz,

Had she received the original claim and had she acknowledged or defended the claim at all ?

It is normal for a default judgment to come through as a forthwith order ( pay immediately ) which she would need to apply to vary to installments ( form N245 - cost £50 or free if exempt - I'll get links )

But what are the circumstances around the actual judgment first pls ?

What are the costs ? just court fees and solicitors fee ? plus 8% statutory interest ?

Sharon
xx

[Amethyst]

Forms

N245 - https://assets.publishing.service.go...0/n245-eng.pdf

EX160 - https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-tribunal-fees

[Roddaz77]

Hi thanks for the quick reply

Had she received the original claim and had she acknowledged or defended the claim at all ?
Yes, she has followed the procedure on here right through to the end. She couldnt go to court as she had kids and couldnt afford the train fare, she informed the court.




It is normal for a default judgment to come through as a forthwith order ( pay immediately ) which she would need to apply to vary to installments ( form N245 - cost £50 or free if exempt - I'll get links )
Thanks I have seen these below. She is a single mum on Universal Credit. Is she able to get costs free? If not I will pay the £50





But what are the circumstances around the actual judgment first pls ?
Argos card, shes ignored letters, claim form for CCJ came through and defended best she could through court. They have now said she is liable which she knew. She just cant afford the £3k payment.




What are the costs ? just court fees and solicitors fee ? plus 8% statutory interest ?
says on the letter court. Just says judgment in favour of the claimant in the sum of £3+ grand being £2.7k judgement debt and 600 in costs and 148 in interest.

Thank you so much for the help, im lost in all this.

[Amethyst]

Yes if she is on Universal Credit she should be eligible for fee remission. The N245 has an income and expenditure sheet with it which she can complete and the court can assess what's affordable to pay by installment.

Do you know if they provided her with the agreement , default notices etc ? and whether she submitted witness statements to the court ?
Sadly if a Litigant in Person doesn't attend the hearing it is pretty much set on that it will be found against them , particularly without a robust witness statement having been lodged in advance.

[Roddaz77]

Yes, they provided everything before the court date, the court postponed the first hearing and called a new one, again she couldn't attend. I didnt know or I would have given her the cost of a train ticket.
Whats the best course of action to take now?

Phone the courts and (or) Legal BW
Print off both of the letters and send to the Court where the hearing was and (or) Legal BW
They say she needs to make a payment in 14 days, this letter was dated the 15th May posted 18th May. Is this the whole amount? Court fees? or can she get this into installments as she is not going to be able to pay £700 in one go.

Thanks again for your help. I will be popping round tonight with the letters for her to complete.

[Amethyst]

Do you have a copy of the order? I'm just wondering why you're separating off the £2.7k debt and the court fees ? Normally it would just be the full amount including any costs / court fees ( so £3.4k payable within 14 or 28 days, rather than £700 payable within 14 days and £2.7k within 28 days etc )

If she has just had enough, is okay with having a CCJ against her, and just wants payments set then yes complete the N245 and fee exemption forms and file at the same court the hearing was held at. Otherwise she can negotiate payment terms by installment directly with the judgment holder ( claimant ) sometimes getting an arrangement that way means the CCJ isn't entered on the register ( but mostly it is ).

[Roddaz77]

The second bit sounds interesting, if she could manage to get away from a CCJ that would be brilliant - how would we go down that road?

I am trying to upload the order now.

[Roddaz77]

Attachment

[Amethyst]

Sadly, just negotiation with the judgment holder. What are her other circumstances - does she rent her home for instance ? I know universal credit has some major problems so she might need to get some support working out her income and expenditure ( citizens advice ?) to ensure the offer she makes is affordable.

The order is for the full amount within 14 days ( £3.3k ) so realistically it is expected the order will be subject to an application to vary - and with limited disposable income - it's likely to need setting by the court to try and ensure it doesn't result in other enforcement like attachment of earnings etc.

[Roddaz77]

Yes she rent her home off a private landlord. I don't think she's got much income once her bills are paid and she's got a couple of children too.

So the best outcome is to contact these legal BW team asap? Does she fill in the forms you linked?

obviously she is in no way able to pay off £3.4k in one go so will have to be played monthly/weekly, will this go off here income and outgoings? Say she has a spare 100 once it's all paid is this what they will take?

they said on the letter they, [bw] don't want judgement?? Is this not already in place?

best advise moving forward please and thanks again for all help so far

[Amethyst]

Can you do a copy of the letter? They have a Judgment already so that's a little confusing.

But yes, generally it would be a case of talking to BW with income and expenditure to try come to a long term affordable arrangement to pay. If she only had £100 disposable income remaining then she should be looking more at £25/£30 as it needs to be sustainable. If they won't accept that ( and remember to include ALL other outstanding debt in the expenditure section even if it isn't currently being paid just work out what would be being paid pro-rata ) then she could put the application to vary in to court. If anything is agreed she needs it in writing.

[thedirtyhound]

My own view in cases like this is that if she doesn't pay them anything, what can they do? They can't make her bankrupt and they can't repossess her home because it isn't hers. They could theoretically take possessions, but there are limits as to what can be taken and it is extra hassle and expense for the claimant company. There is always the danger that they could issue a writ of FiFe to get the High Court Enforcement officer involved, but there is little point in my view in doing that at a rented house. There would be too much ambiguity as to who owned what. Sometimes a judgment isn't worth the paper it is written on if the debtor still can't pay. If she paid at the rate of £1.00 per week, it would take 57 years to clear the debt!!!

[Roddaz77]

Ill try and get the letter up tonite. Shes just text me and said that shes contacted BW today over the phone and they have been horrible to her. They have said she now has a CCJ and that unless she pays in full that will be on her record for 6 years. They have apparently gone through an income and expenditure paymane plan with her and even though they can see she has more going out than she has coming in they have told her they want £20 a month. Which she says will leave her short.

Whats the best course of action, I have asked if she has got this in writing or agreed and waiting back for her text now. Shes saying its making her ill now and shes gonna take 15 years to pay off

[Amethyst]

There is absolutley no need for BW Legal to be nasty to her, she really shouldn't take it to heart though, they are just looking at numbers on a page and forget there are real people at the end of the phone. They want to try get the full amount in as quickly as possible of course so if they can scare her into doing that presumably they get a gold star on their chart.... if they've agreed £20 a month and she will be able to keep that up, she wants to get it in writing and get a couple months ahead in payments if at all possible. As Dirtyhound says there's very little they can do to her as she doesn't own her home. The biggest issue is the credit file and the judgment being on the register, but unless she was wanting to get credit or work in financial services it shouldn't really affect her. It isn't set on it will be entered either, but most likely it would be - some companies don't do anything as long as they are getting paid and then the judgment doesn't get entered on the register unless they have to do something to enforce the judgment, but if that is the case it should be a pleasant suprise, it's more likely to go on there and stay for the 6 years.
I had cause to call Robinson Way to try and settle an old debt with them a few weeks back. The guy I spoke to was threatening, nasty and patronising and refused point blank to accept a settlement. I told him I'd just wait for court then....he just made more threats of how they'd keep calling me ( very scary lol).... earlier this week I got a letter from them offering to settle for the same amount I'd offered.
Once she gets it agreed and set up hopefully she can just forget about it, and maybe if things improve financially as the kids get older she'll maybe be able to pay it off quicker or even get a full and final settlement on it.

If the £20 is still too much though she should go through court to vary the order - but that will definately mean the CCJ gets listed.