Cabot - Morgans

[TriesHard]

i've just received a letter from Cabot advising me that they have bought a 'debt' - a CC debt - from the bank and i now need to contact them to agree a payment options. There is no CCA for this 'debt' as the bank could not provide one and as such i have not paid anything towards it for about 3 years. The bank did raise court action but withdrew it before it was heard - i assumed because they have no CCA.

now my questions are;

can they buy a debt that has no CCA and as such is unenforceable
should i make contact with them or should i ignore their letter

any advice would be appreciated

[Curlyben]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

If this is the first you have heard from Cabot then hold fire and wait and see if they can be bothered to write again.

Otherwise a simple Prove It letter is quite a good opener..

how far did the previous court action get ?

as for your questions.
Well a DCA will buy anything that has a potential profit in it, what do they care if it has an agreement or not..

[TriesHard]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

thanks.

the previous action went as far as me recieving the court papers, outlinging what action was being taken against me etc and giving me a date to notify them if i wanted to defend the action.

all this despite me writing to them and asking for a copy of the CCA. i wrote to them again after i received the court summons and asked why they had lodged an action in court when they had yet to provide me with a copy of the CCA, and they said they would have the matter 'sisted' while the CCA was being located and then they simply withdrew their action - i assumed because they could not find the CCA.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

As you're in Scotland, the alleged debt will become unenforceable in five years of non-payment or acknowledgement in writing, by section 6 (link) and schedule 1 (link) of the Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973.

[TriesHard]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

thanks CleverClogs, i've got another couple of years to wait before it becomes unenforceable just hope cabot/morgans don't bother with any further letters until then.

Do you know what my chances are giving there is no CCA? i'm concerned they might try legal action.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

thanks CleverClogs, i've got another couple of years to wait before it becomes unenforceable just hope cabot/morgans don't bother with any further letters until then.

I believe that the legal jargon is that you stand "bugger all chance of that".

Do you know what my chances are giving there is no CCA? i'm concerned they might try legal action.

Just like the original lender, they might try but, without the executed CCA, it should not be possible for them to succeed.

It may be better if you did not remind them of the difference between English and Scots Law until more than five years have elapsed.

(N.B. Lest anyone accuses me of counselling or suggesting debt repayment avoidance, I am doing nothing of the sort. However, the law does allow a creditor at least five years to find the executed copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement; I take the view that, if they cannot perform that simple task in that time, they don't deserve the money! )

[TriesHard]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

okay, I've received a letter this time from optima legal asking me to contact them by 12 Nov obviously Cabot-Morgans have given up. Should i just ignore them and hope they will go away or do i send some sort of 'go away' letter? the default was sept 2008 and apart from letters in 2009 (see post #3), asking why they had taken legal action despite the account being in dispute i've had no contact.

I've just had a thought, could this debt be SB'd now? should i send them a stat barred letter, including a comment like "I do not admit this debt etc" or will this start the clock running on the debt again if it's not stat barred?

[labman]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

It will certainly be very close to becoming extinguished as you're in Scotland. Have you any paperwork relating to this as you need to know when the cause of action was which would have set the SB clock running.

[TriesHard]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

I've got some but not all paperwork. checked my file on experian and it gave me the date of default, and I've got a copy of the letter from the court in 2009 saying that the action was withdrawn. what are your thoughts labman?

[labman]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

I always suggest that if you're not sure it is Statute Barred, then it is best to keep quiet until a decent period of time has passed. I'd be inclined to ignore this first contact from Optima and see what they send next. Having said that, Optima are issuing a lot of legal claims at the moment, so it's a bit of a guessing game as to what their next move will be.

[PlanB]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

I've received a letter this time from optima legal asking me to contact them by 12 Nov obviously Cabot-Morgans have given up. Should i just ignore them and hope they will go away or do i send some sort of 'go away' letter? the default was sept 2008 and apart from letters in 2009 (see post #3), asking why they had taken legal action despite the account being in dispute i've had no contact.

Optima Legal is a law firm so ignoring them may not be wise. Is that letter a possible Letter Before Action with a deadline of 12th November? Can you post it up with your personal details removed (but don't deface the original).

In your post August 2011 you said that proceedings had been issued in 2009 and "withdrawn". Do you know why those proceedings were discontinued? I would think the creditor would be in some difficulty issuing new proceedings unless something had changed.

[PlanB]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

i've just received a letter from Cabot advising me that they have bought a 'debt' - a CC debt - from the bank and i now need to contact them to agree a payment options. There is no CCA for this 'debt' as the bank could not provide one and as such i have not paid anything towards it for about 3 years. The bank did raise court action but withdrew it before it was heard - i assumed because they have no CCA.

now my questions are;

can they buy a debt that has no CCA and as such is unenforceable

^^^^ this was your original post from 2011. Who was the original creditor? How do you know there is no CCA? Did you send a formal section 78 request and do you still have a copy of that request and a copy of the creditor's response saying that they don't have the CCA?

If Optima Legal turn up the heat you may need to send a new CCA request if you have no proof of the first one submitted in 2009 (?).

[TriesHard]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

PlanB the debt was a Credit Card debt from the bank.

I originally made a written request for a copy of the CCA in 2008 and put the account in dispute until they sent me a copy however, they went ahead and lodged court action anyway.

i wrote to them after i received the summons to ask why they had raised an action while the account was in dispute (due to them not sending me a copy of the CCA & they never replied to my request for a copy. i assumed this was because they had no copy of the CCA). At the time they said all action would be sisted until they came up with the copy CCA.

in Dec 2008 I also wrote to the Office of Fair Trading (as the bank were trying to enforce an account through the courts when it was in dispute which i thought amounted to them operating an unfair commercial practice) and the ombudsman to complain, about them trying to take court action while the account was in dispute as despite their written assurances that the action had been sisted, it had not been as i was checking with the court on a daily basis.

In 2009 the ombudsman phoned me to say that they would be asking the bank to withdraw their action and make contact with me direct however, to date I've heard nothing from the bank. All i received in 2009 was a letter from the court to say that the action had been withdrawn.

Then in 2011 i got a letter from Cabot

[PlanB]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

I originally made a written request for a copy of the CCA in 2008 and put the account in dispute until they sent me a copy . . . .

. . . Then in 2011 i got a letter from Cabot

This debt was bought by Cabot in 2011. It's likely that they got no paperwork on the history of your CCA request in 2008 or the subsequent county court palaver when they purchased the account. If they've now progressed it to Optima Legal then I think you should take this seriously although if they don't have a credit agreement they won't be able to enforce the debt in court. It's up to you whether you want to risk that event all over again. Sometimes a reconstituted copy will do

Have you ignored all correspondence from Cabot in the last two years or is there a paper trail to make them aware of the original non-compliance with your section 78 Request five years ago? They are not psychic and a time may come when you need to tell Cabot and/or their solicitors Optima Legal the status of this debt to prevent a new county court summons from being issued. A lot depends on whether that letter you received from Optima Legal is a Letter Before Action. What does it actually say will happen if you don't contact them by 12th November? Is there any specific mention of court proceedings if you don't?

[TriesHard]

Re: Cabot - Morgans

PlanB, i only received 1 letter from Cabot and i ignored that. I don't think Optima's is a letter before action as it doesn't say so but they do say they want the money in full and they give me a list of ways to pay, organisations to contact if i need help etc.
As it's been so long do you think the debt could be stature barred? if it's not quite should i write to them and say i do not admit the debt, show me your proof or will this start the clock again or should i just give up?

i cannot post up the letter as i do not have a scanner