Urgent Advice Needed. Cabot Court Claim

[Jaypaul]

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping you may be offer me some advice. This is a crosspost from the court claim thread as it doesn't appear to have really been seen with the exception of one person since Friday.Â*

I've received a Claim Form today for a Capital One debt for a credit card issues in December 2008.

Received a claim? Yes/No: Yes

Issue Date: 05 Dec 2019

Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: Yes

Total Amount Claimed :Â*

£600

Claimant's Name: CABOT Financial

Solicitors Firm: Mortimer Clarke

Original Creditor: Capital One

Original Debt: Credit Card

Particulars of Claim:Â* By an agreement between Capital One & the Defendant on or around ##/12/2008. ('the agreement') Capital One agreed to issue the defendant with a credit card. The defendant failed to make the minimum payments due & the agreement was terminated. The agreement was assigned to the claimant therefore claims £500 costs

Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?):

List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ):

Any Other Information or Background Details: See Below

This is a debt that I had been repaying at less than £10 a month up until the middle of last year due to a change of circumstances. We became a single income househould due to my partners ill health and don't meet the criteria for Universal credit and she's going through the PIP appeal process. I notified them at the time of the change of circumstances.

In order to manage and commit to a show of faith, I have setup £1 payments which have been accepted by some of my debtors. These are all debts from my early 20's.

I updated circumstances again in May of this year (2019) with a similar show of faith with no response. I did complete an expenses form for one of the debt companies and I can't completely recall if it was this one (i generally keep good records), but they refused a £1 on the basis that I couldn't afford it.

At a loss at what to do here and could do with some guidance.

I wanted to send the CCA and CPR letter yesterday but confused as to the date I am putting on the first paragraph of the CPR letter. Is this date 28 days from the date of acknowledgement?

Wondering where I stand with this, incredibly stressed and can't think straight.Â*

Thanks

I am also positive that this debt has changed hands over the years and hasn't always been with CABOT.

JayPaul

[Amethyst]

It's 33 days from the date of issue printed on the claim ( not 28 from acknowledgement) - reading through the rest of the post xx

[Jaypaul]

It's 33 days from the date of issue printed on the claim ( not 28 from acknowledgement) - reading through the rest of the post xx

Thank you Amethyst*! I'll get the letters off on my lunch break today.

[Amethyst]

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping you may be offer me some advice. This is a crosspost from the court claim thread as it doesn't appear to have really been seen with the exception of one person since Friday.


I've received a Claim Form today for a Capital One debt for a credit card issues in December 2008.


Received a claim? Yes/No: Yes

Issue Date: 05 Dec 2019

Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: Yes

Total Amount Claimed :
£600

Claimant's Name: CABOT Financial

Solicitors Firm: Mortimer Clarke

Original Creditor: Capital One

Original Debt: Credit Card

Particulars of Claim: By an agreement between Capital One & the Defendant on or around ##/12/2008. ('the agreement') Capital One agreed to issue the defendant with a credit card. The defendant failed to make the minimum payments due & the agreement was terminated. The agreement was assigned to the claimant therefore claims £500 costs

Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?):

List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ):

Any Other Information or Background Details: See Below


This is a debt that I had been repaying at less than £10 a month up until the middle of last year due to a change of circumstances. We became a single income househould due to my partners ill health and don't meet the criteria for Universal credit and she's going through the PIP appeal process. I notified them at the time of the change of circumstances.


In order to manage and commit to a show of faith, I have setup £1 payments which have been accepted by some of my debtors. These are all debts from my early 20's.


I updated circumstances again in May of this year (2019) with a similar show of faith with no response. I did complete an expenses form for one of the debt companies and I can't completely recall if it was this one (i generally keep good records), but they refused a £1 on the basis that I couldn't afford it.


At a loss at what to do here and could do with some guidance.


I wanted to send the CCA and CPR letter yesterday but confused as to the date I am putting on the first paragraph of the CPR letter. Is this date 28 days from the date of acknowledgement?


Wondering where I stand with this, incredibly stressed and can't think straight.Â*


Thanks


I am also positive that this debt has changed hands over the years and hasn't always been with CABOT.


JayPaul

Okay, so you are on the right track, but as this is quite a recent debt ( well, post 2007) and a capital one card, that you have been making token payments on, it is likely they will be able to provide the relevant documents and should it get to a hearing they are likely to obtain the CCJ against you. So keep that in mind and prepare to try and negotiate either a settlement or installment payments to keep it away from a CCJ. If you aren't all that concerned about having a judgment then you can carry on with the claim and defending on the basis of lack of documents ( for the moment ) and bring up the failure to mention in their statement of case whether the debt was defaulted.

If it was Cabot and they refused your £1 offer on affordability grounds it is a little odd to take it to court ( as the court simply won't order you to pay anything if £1 is unaffordable ) - and it's too small an amount (£600) to get a charge over a house, and there's not enough income to get an attachment of earnings, it's not due to go statute barred any time soon either due to the token payments.

Do you recall if the IE sheet you completed was on a form attached to a Letter before Claim ? ( preaction letter with a questionnaire and IE sheets )

So for now see what the responses to the CCA and CPR letters are, and I might also send a Subject Access Request to capital one. (Subject Access Request Letter to

Capital One, PO Box 5281, Nottingham NG2 3HX.

), then go from there. If Cabot fail to respond by the defence date ( the 33 days from date of issue) then file a standard defence ( Example Defence

)

[Jaypaul]

Okay, so you are on the right track, but as this is quite a recent debt ( well, post 2007) and a capital one card, that you have been making token payments on, it is likely they will be able to provide the relevant documents and should it get to a hearing they are likely to obtain the CCJ against you. So keep that in mind and prepare to try and negotiate either a settlement or installment payments to keep it away from a CCJ. If you aren't all that concerned about having a judgment then you can carry on with the claim and defending on the basis of lack of documents ( for the moment ) and bring up the failure to mention in their statement of case whether the debt was defaulted.

If it was Cabot and they refused your £1 offer on affordability grounds it is a little odd to take it to court ( as the court simply won't order you to pay anything if £1 is unaffordable ) - and it's too small an amount (£600) to get a charge over a house, and there's not enough income to get an attachment of earnings, it's not due to go statute barred any time soon either due to the token payments.

Do you recall if the IE sheet you completed was on a form attached to a Letter before Claim ? ( preaction letter with a questionnaire and IE sheets )

So for now see what the responses to the CCA and CPR letters are, and I might also send a Subject Access Request to capital one. (Subject Access Request Letter to

Capital One, PO Box 5281, Nottingham NG2 3HX.

), then go from there. If Cabot fail to respond by the defence date ( the 33 days from date of issue) then file a standard defence ( Example Defence

)

Amethyst Thank you for taking time to break this down for me. It makes much more sense now. I can't recall at the moment regarding the IE, but I'm going to go through all my paperwork when I get home to see what I have, along with my emails.
Ironically, the day before the claim came, I did a mailbox purge (kept any debt emails or thought I did). Typical!

Jay Paul

[Jaypaul]

Okay, so you are on the right track, but as this is quite a recent debt ( well, post 2007) and a capital one card, that you have been making token payments on, it is likely they will be able to provide the relevant documents and should it get to a hearing they are likely to obtain the CCJ against you. So keep that in mind and prepare to try and negotiate either a settlement or installment payments to keep it away from a CCJ. If you aren't all that concerned about having a judgment then you can carry on with the claim and defending on the basis of lack of documents ( for the moment ) and bring up the failure to mention in their statement of case whether the debt was defaulted.

If it was Cabot and they refused your £1 offer on affordability grounds it is a little odd to take it to court ( as the court simply won't order you to pay anything if £1 is unaffordable ) - and it's too small an amount (£600) to get a charge over a house, and there's not enough income to get an attachment of earnings, it's not due to go statute barred any time soon either due to the token payments.

Do you recall if the IE sheet you completed was on a form attached to a Letter before Claim ? ( preaction letter with a questionnaire and IE sheets )

So for now see what the responses to the CCA and CPR letters are, and I might also send a Subject Access Request to capital one. (Subject Access Request Letter to

Capital One, PO Box 5281, Nottingham NG2 3HX.

), then go from there. If Cabot fail to respond by the defence date ( the 33 days from date of issue) then file a standard defence ( Example Defence

)

Hi Amethyst*, Hope you've had a good Christmas!

So, new years eve I received the Subject Access request pack from Capital One. The agreement is in there. I've also had a letter yesterday from Mortimer Clarke to say they're placing the account on hold whilst they request the CCA from their client (who have also notified me they need to request the relevant information).*

Surely even if Mortimer pause the account, this doesn't actually make any difference to the legal timeframe that a defence has to be submitted by? Plus... how can they move forward and submit a claim if they didn't have the evidence of the agreement in the first place?
*

[Amethyst]

Indeed, you need to stick with the Court timetable unless Mortimer Clarke have put in writing that they formally agree to an extension for the date to file your defence Under CPR 15 (the maximum extension would be 28 days)

Claimants only ever obtain the agreement if it is requested by the debtor. It should have been dealt with through the pre-action protocols but they don't seem to be working as intended.

obtaining the SAR has been useful because you now know that capital one have the agreement available and are likely to provide it to the claimants so they can proceed with the claim. This puts you in a strong position to negotiate a settlement out of court if you so wish. That is, the claimant doesn't know if they've got the agreement or not, and it's going to take some time and be a pain ( and costly) for them to get it so they may accept a lower settlement offer Maybe under a Tomlin order.

If there is no formal agreement to the extension then I would file your defence based on non-compliance with your cca request and after that has been received and served on the claimant consider getting in touch to negotiate settlement.

Does the sar info include default notice and assignment notices and do all the dates and amounts et cetera match up to what the claimant is claiming?

[Jaypaul]

Indeed, you need to stick with the Court timetable unless Mortimer Clarke have put in writing that they formally agree to an extension for the date to file your defence Under CPR 15 (the maximum extension would be 28 days)

Claimants only ever obtain the agreement if it is requested by the debtor. It should have been dealt with through the pre-action protocols but they don't seem to be working as intended.

obtaining the SAR has been useful because you now know that capital one have the agreement available and are likely to provide it to the claimants so they can proceed with the claim. This puts you in a strong position to negotiate a settlement out of court if you so wish. That is, the claimant doesn't know if they've got the agreement or not, and it's going to take some time and be a pain ( and costly) for them to get it so they may accept a lower settlement offer Maybe under a Tomlin order.

If there is no formal agreement to the extension then I would file your defence based on non-compliance with your cca request and after that has been received and served on the claimant consider getting in touch to negotiate settlement.

Does the sar info include default notice and assignment notices and do all the dates and amounts et cetera match up to what the claimant is claiming?

Hi Amethyst*

The SAR contains the default notice from Cap One. There is a note in the computer printout that details when the debt was sold to CABOT, but no copy of the letter in the pack. The agreement was countersigned by Cap One 4 days after I signed. The countersignature is 3 days earlier than the date on the claim. I think they get out of this by stating 'on or around'.

I've received a further letter from Cabot today, Dated Christmas Eve. Information declares still processing the request, contacted the original lender for the relevant information. As they haven't been able to provide me with the info I have requested, the credit agreement is unenforceable until they're able to reply to the request. (Sounds like a generic letter). This means they are not permitted to obtain a county court judgment or a warrant for diligence against me in court.

What happens next?
Balance still outstanding, whilst they can't commence legal action against my account they ask that I am able to repay this amount. Need to talk to me about setting up a payment plan which is affordable.

For a letter that sounds incredibly generic, it does sound like it contradicts the fact that they've already made a claim.

Should Cabot/MC have included the Cap One Default Notice in their claim?

Bw

John

[Jaypaul]

Hi Amethyst*
Based on all the above, and the fact that there's been nothing official from the court about a date change... and we're still looking at needing to submit a defence by tuesday. How would you propose moving forward?

The debt is mine, yes. I am stuck in terms of available funds to be able to repay this aand that's an issue in itself.

At this point, I don't have the materials requested from 'them' , there is a default in the pack from cap one, bu unsure if debt agencies default.

No mention of the default in the claim.

Then there's that letter above which seems to contradict the stage they're at.*

I appreciate you're stacked and it's not easy dealing with so many people, but thankful for any advice you can give.*

Bw
*

[Jaypaul]

Anyone able to help? Please?

[Jaypaul]

Hi Amethyst*, Based on the above, the letters received. I've had no further letters and need to submit this by tomorrow. How does this sound?

In the*[Northampton County Court Business Centre]

Claim No:*[XXXXX]

[Claimants Name]

Claimant

And

[Defendants Name]

Defendant

DEFENCE

1.The Defendant received the claim*[Claim Number]*from the*[Name of Court – often Northampton or Salford]*County Court on*[Date you received the claim]

2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3.This claim is for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4.It is*[admitted/denied]*that the Defendant has*[previously]*entered into an agreement with*Capital One for provision of credit.

5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

6.The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim states the agreement was entered into on ##/12/2008.

7.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from Capital One but provides no date. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

8.It is denied that*[Original Creditor]*served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant. The Claimant is required to prove that the any Default notice relied upon complied with the requirements of s88(4A) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that the notice was in the prescribed form as required by The Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notice Regulations 1983.

9.On the*[Date]*The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Mortimer Clarke. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement.

10.Mortimer Clarke has not sent any of these documents to the Defendant.

11.On the*[Date]*The Defendant sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Cabot Financial pursuant to section*[77 or 78]*of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

12.The Claimant has failed to comply with*[s77 (1) / s 78 (1)]*Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of*[s77 (4) / s 78 (6)]*Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.


13.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

14.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead*his*case else the Claim should stand struck out.

15.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend*his*defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

16.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Signed ________________________________

Dated *________________________________