2 Cabot/Mortimer Clarke CCJs going through - Help needed

[Mitz1e]

Hope someone can help as I am panicking. Sorry for the length of this.

I have 2 CCJs going through from Cabot / Mortimer Clarke and 1 other Cabot currently with Restons but not at CCJ stage yet. There are other debts as well. Details for the CCJ claims below. Original defaults were in 2010 and I went with Stepchange who administered until January this year, firstly with original creditors. Payments then changed to Cabot in 2012 although I don't remember much about it as Stepchange were dealing with everything directly. Amounts paid were nominal and Stepchange had reluctantly kept going anyway. I took my eye completely off the ball at the time (bereavement etc) and Stepchange ceased my account. In late August I received claim letters from the Solicitors but did not understand the significance of these at the time and quite honestly panicked at the very scary cover sheets threatening legal action.Â* I eventually plucked up courage to read these and write to all 3 explaining my situation and offering full of final settlements (family help), exactly the same offers that Cabot had already made to me several times during my last year with Stepchange and I included copies of their offer letters with mine to them.Â* These offers to them crossed with CCJ claims being started on 2 of the debts. Mortimer Clarke responded differently on each of the 2 with them - 1 to say that they had passed the offer on (nothing further since) and the other saying that they would be seeking judgement and to respond via the claim. Restons have engaged with my offer but not yet resolved.I acknowledged the claims online and on poor advice have ticked that I will be part defending each as I had made offers..Â* I was then given other advice re CCAs and CPR and have sent these in the past few days, all have been signed for. Obviously I don't have responses to these and now have to enter defences without really knowing whether everything is correct etc.

1st claim was issued 1st November and has to have defence entered by this Wednesday 4th and 2nd claim was issued 6th November so a few more days there. Both are for large amounts - I won't post these immediately as concerned at maybe being identified from the amounts.

Any/all help gratefully received.


Â*

[Amethyst]

There are two claims.

Both on debts that defaulted in 2010 and sold on to Cabot in 2012

You were making payments via Stepchange DMP until January 2019.

Were both claims for credit cards / loans ?Â* It would be useful to see the particulars of claim on each claim.

You previously made full and final settlement offers which weren't accepted.

You submitted a part admission for each claim with your acknowledgment of service.Â* Did you do that online through moneyclaimonline? What does the current status of each claim show as now? ( can you do a screenshot of the moneyclaim screen )
Were the offers based on anything other than what they'd previously offered to settle for? ( spends minus interest / charges or anything like that )

You have sent CCA request and CPR request off for both claims, but had no response as yet ( they've only been sent recently )
Â*

The example starting point Defence is here Example Defence

however with a partial admission on both of them it's going to need some work as you're only defending the remaining part of the debt.

[Mitz1e]

Thanks for this.

Screenshot attached and particulars as follows

1) By an agreement between Lloyds TSB and the Defendant on or around 08/01/2010 ('the Agreement') LLOYDS TSB agreed to loan the Defendant monies. The Defendant did not pay the installments as they became due & the Agreement was terminated. The Agreement was assigned to the claimant.Â* The Claimant therefore claims 1) 25k (my redaction) 2. Costs

2)Â*By an agreement between Lloyds TSB and the Defendant on or around 19/03/1990 ('the Agreement') LLOYDS TSB agreed to issue the Defendant wit a credit card. The Defendant did not pay the minimum payments due & the Agreement was terminated. The Agreement was assigned to the claimant.Â* The Claimant therefore claims 1) 10k (my redaction) 2. Costs

The first given is the most urgent as it had an issue date of 1st November.Â* I have received no response to my full and final settlement offer for this 1, just an acknowledgement from Mortimer Clarke saying that they passed this on (I also sent direct to Cabot). I have received a refusal saying to respond via the Court on the second claim.Â* Both of my offers were for the exact same same discounts that they had offered me previously, 30% of the sum outstanding for full and final settlement.

[Mitz1e]

Further status screenshots attached for each.Â* Apart from ticking a box on the acknowledgement I have done nothing else.My offers to Cabot/Mortimer Clarke included copies of the original letters that Cabot had sent me re offers to settle. and pointed out my personal circumstances - age, heading towards retirement and progressive health/mobility issues.

[Amethyst]

So one loan ( unsecured presumably? ) and one credit card ?

Theres no mention in the status of the part admission - are the figures the full amount being claimed ?Â*

The credit card they may struggle get to get the agreement if it was opened in 1990 so the CCA request is going to be important.Â*

Both cases might be put in to the fast track system at court so there might be a larger costs risk if you went on to lose.

Did you ask for agreement, assignment and termination/default notices in your cpr letters ?Â*

Do you own your own house ? ( just thinking through potential consequences of a loss in court )Â*

It May be an idea to SAR Lloyds .....Â*

"" You can get a copy of all the personal information we hold about you by filling inÂ*this formÂ* or by writing to us at this address:

DSAR
Lloyds Bank Customer Service RecoveryÂ*
Charlton Place, C57Â*
AndoverÂ*
SP10 1RE
""
Â*

[Mitz1e]

Unsecured loan and credit card.Â* The only admission so far is that I stupidly ticked the I intend to defend part of this claim boxes on the acknowledgment plus the full and final settlement offer letters that I sent.The figures being claimed are the full amounts as they were issued before I sent off my settlement offer letters.Â* Everything got a bit jumbled on dates at the time.Â* It's not been a good year. House is owned jointly with a large interest only mortgage. My CPR requests to Mortimer Clarke have asked for all documents agreement / assignment / default although I didn't specifically mention termination. Everything has long gone off credit reports. and happened at a very bad time in my life.

[Mitz1e]

Filling in the SAR request to Lloyds although I have also already copied the CCA requests to them albeit not to the addresses on the links given - sent to registered office in Edinburgh.Â* Is it better to ask for post or online?Â*Â*

[Amethyst]

The CCA requests have gone direct to Cabot with the 1's haven't they ? The SAR is separate - you want everything ( all data held ) relating to those two accounts - either method is fine so long as you have evidence of sending the request. Probably better to have reply on email / pdf tbh - saves having to scan documents in and can just print anything needed out for later bundles etc.*

Everything will have come off your credit file after 6 yrs from default - so 2016... you don't want to end up with a CCJ back on there buggering things up for another 6 years.

CPR requests sound fine.

Sounds like you didn't actually enter part admissions so that's good, the acknowledgement isn't binding just an indication so you can still defend in full ... *your f&f offer letters were marked ' without prejudice' ?

[Mitz1e]

CCAs went to Cabot with 1 postal orders and have been signed for as have the CPRs to Mortimer Clarke.* I will do the Lloyds SAR now.* F&F letters were all headed without prejudice.

[Mitz1e]

Amethyst*

I have drafted the below as a first try for the most urgent defence required, the loan, leaving out some sections.* It seems somehow inadequate.* As I need to submit by Wednesday latest I believe, do you have any suggestions. Paragraph numbers left in for ease of reference at the moment. I take it that I shouldn't mention my F&F letter to them at all as it was 'without prejudice'. As they have put the agreement date to be on or around rather than a precise date should I draw attention to that? I guess that the outcome of the various requests for information will dictate next steps.*

Is there anything else you need to know?


1.The Defendant received the claim*[Claim Number]*from the*County Court Business Centre on*4^th November 2019

*2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3.This claim*appears to be for*a*Loan*agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

5.The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim*states the agreement was entered into on or around 08/01/2010.

6.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned to*the claimant Cabot Financial (UK) Limited but does not give any date. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

7.It is denied that*Lloyds TSB*served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant. The Claimant is required to prove that the any Default notice relied upon complied with the requirements of s88(4A) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that the notice was in the prescribed form as required by The Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notice Regulations 1983.

*8.On the*27/11/2019*The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to*Mortimer Clarke Solicitors Limited. The Defendent requested the Claimant provide copies of the*Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.

*9 Mortimer Clarke*Solicitors Limited has not sent any of these documents to the Defendant.

10.On the*27/11/19 the Defendant sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to*Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd pursuant to section*77*of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

*11.The Claimant has failed to comply with*s77 (1)* Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of*s77 (4)*Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

12.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

13.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead*her*case else the Claim should stand struck out.

14.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend*her*defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

15.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

[Mitz1e]

Amethyst

Hi, I'm at work at the moment but when you get a chance could you review the draft that I put up last night. Many thanks

[Amethyst]

That does look absolutely fine - this is the loan account do s 77 is correct - it is always impersonal to start with as without any documents being provided there's no need to go into specifics. Remember to unbold the bits you edited from the template ( sorry about all the daft symbols on here, something I'm trying to get fixed ).*

Do you recall how long the loan was for originally ? ( just if they didnt issue a default notice the cause of action date can be taken from the end of the fixed term ... not that that matters hugely as you were in the DMP )

[Mitz1e]

Thanks. Loan was for 84 months. It was offered unsolicited by Lloyd's over the phone - I have a feeling that it was Black Horse something or other rather than a standard Lloyd's personal loan so it should prove interesting to see what comes back from the SAR.

[Mitz1e]

Amethyst

Been up half the night checking and re-checking and need to ask a question re my defence that I was about to submit. Realised that the CPR request sent was from a different template to the one on your site as it was before I started asking questions and a friend was trying to help me out. I have actually asked for 2 more documents in that than referred to on the defence. Both were left in as they were implied by the particulars of claim which quite honestly is very vague on documentation.

One was the deed of assignment and 1 was a full statement. Should I mention these in my defence as documents requested? I've read overnight bout issues re the deed request with arguments both ways but worried that if I leave out the fact that I've asked for it that there might be implications at a later stage.

Defence due in tomorrow as issue date was 1st Nov but I'd like to submit today.

Thanks in advance.

[Amethyst]

Yes, mention in the defence anything that you did ask for, whether or not you were strictly able to under CPR 31.14, so yes add in that you also asked for Full Statements and the Deed of Assignment. All that could happen is the court say you aren't entitled to it because it wasn't mentioned, occasionally a court will order the claimant provides it, particularly when there are questions over assignment.