cabot taking me to court for outstanding balance on hsbc overdraft -help needed

**flock** · 11th September 2018, 23:26:PM

If I complete form N9A and offer a repayment amount would I still have a judgement? I am not sure if I have understood a guidance that says I can request more time to pay and no judgement

**Amethyst** · 12th September 2018, 08:10:AM

If you complete the Admission form with an offer to pay by installments, yes you will have a judgment entered against you.

You need to get the claimant ( Cabot ) to evidence that the amount is correct and that they have the right to reclaim this money from you.

You mention the account was closed in 2011/2012 but your last payment was 2017. When did the account actually default - was that 2013 when the default appeared on your credit file ?

Who were you making those payments to and how much were you paying ? ( I note you say you have paid £750 from 30/05/14 - 7/4/2017 )

First step is to Acknowledge Claim with intent to defend in full - ~DO THIS TODAY - you only have 14 days from service which isn't far off.

Then send a SAR to HSBC - Subject Access Request Letter
You want the agreement, terms and transaction lists, so you can see fees/charges etc, also screenotes, any communications with third parties about your account including debt collection and sale etc.

Do you know when Cabot took over the debt?

Can you type out the particulars of claim from the claim form so we know what to ask for in the CPR 31.14 Request

Did you receive a pre-action letter ?

You may be able to negotiate a settlement outside of court directly with Cabot (who's running the claim - Mortimer Clarke solicitors or Restons? )
before it gets as far as a judgment. Asking for the documents is a good first step and should put you in a better position negotiation wise, and potentially after you file your defence you could agree something called a Tomlin Order ( http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...-credit-claims ) with the claimants to put the claim on hold while you make affordable payments if you can't make a full and final settlement.

**flock** · 12th September 2018, 22:16:PM

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

If you complete the Admission form with an offer to pay by instalments, yes you will have a judgment entered against you.

You need to get the claimant ( Cabot ) to evidence that the amount is correct and that they have the right to reclaim this money from you.

You mention the account was closed in 2011/2012 but your last payment was 2017. When did the account actually default - was that 2013 when the default appeared on your credit file?

Account defaulted in August 2013 (student account and o/d ) - info from old saved credit file not in current plus name change from marriage

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

Who were you making those payments to and how much were you paying ? ( I note you say you have paid £750 from 30/05/14 - 7/4/2017 )

I made payments directly to HSBC and was for £25 per month but also had gaps between payment and lost track. I worked out the figure from going through online statements but I can't tell if my other old account which I no longer have access to was used for payments

[QUOTE=Amethyst;n1423382]
First step is to Acknowledge Claim with intent to defend in full - ~DO THIS TODAY - you only have 14 days from service which isn't far off.

Thanks, will do this online.

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

Do you know when Cabot took over the debt?

no, I don't may have been informed but have moved a lot within that time period.(x3) I have accessed credit file not on it but was in my maiden name.

[QUOTE=Amethyst;n1423382]Can you type out the particulars of claim from the claim form so we know what to ask for in the CPR 31.14 Request

Particulars of claim
Monies due under current account overdraft. The Claimant's claim is for the balance outstanding under a Bank account facility HSBC bank PLC agreed to maintain for the defendant. It was the term of the bank account that any debit balance would be replayable by the Defendant in full on demand. The Defendant has failed to repay the amount due. The debt was assigned to the claimant on 23/02/2018. The CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS 1. 1085.06 2.interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984, namely 0.00 & continuing until judgement or sooner payment at the rate of 0.00

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

Did you receive a pre-action letter?

I recall getting a letter a few weeks ago from Mortimer Clarke solicitors asking me to contact them to discuss a matter and also wanted to confirm named person. I had kept it to sort but forgot and now I can't find the letter.

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

You may be able to negotiate a settlement outside of court directly with Cabot (who's running the claim - Mortimer Clarke solicitors or Restons? )
before it gets as far as a judgment. Asking for the documents is a good first step and should put you in a better position negotiation wise, and potentially after you file your defence you could agree something called a Tomlin Order ( http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...-credit-claims ) with the claimants to put the claim on hold while you make affordable payments if you can't make a full and final settlement.

Thanks so much for your advice. Its Mortimer Clarke Solicitors running the claim Once defence filed who do I send the negotiation letter to HBSC or Cabot or Mortimer Clarke

**flock** · 14th September 2018, 17:27:PM

1.Acknowledgement done
2. SAR sent to HSBC

I would be grateful for help with the wordings of CPR31.14 if applicable and my defence.

**flock** · 22nd September 2018, 16:24:PM

Please see particulars of claim. I need help with completing CPR 31.14, what documents to request as no contract was mentioned besides bank account facility

Particulars of claim
Monies due under current account overdraft. The Claimant's claim is for the balance outstanding under a Bank account facility HSBC bank PLC agreed to maintain for the defendant. It was the term of the bank account that any debit balance would be replayable by the Defendant in full on demand. The Defendant has failed to repay the amount due. The debt was assigned to the claimant on 23/02/2018. The CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS 1. 1085.06 2.interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984, namely 0.00 & continuing until judgement or sooner payment at the rate of 0.00

**Amethyst** · 24th September 2018, 10:42:AM

bump for merging - DONE merged with main thread

previous post

Amethyst commented
Today, 11:40:AM

Okay.

Well CPR 31.14 is quite basic, and as nothing is actually mentioned in the statement of case then I reckon you've done a decent job although it's a bit uneccessarily wordy. There will likely be a response stating none of the documents are mentioned, so form the request a little more generally without all the strict 'must' stuff, as if you're strict, they're strict back, and if they are strict they really wouldn't have to provide any of it under CPR 31.14, so I'd back off a bit and be a little more 'it'd help if you could provide the docs' rather than a 'you must do this, you must do that' because, basically, they mustn't. If that makes any sense at all.

Did you have a pre-action letter before the claim, and did you respond to that requesting documents which they failed to provide ? If so add that into the letter.

Sirs,
Ref: CLAIM NO XXXXXXXXXXXX - claimants name v your name.

I am in receipt of the claim in the above case. To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case and intend to rely on in court ahead of filing my defence on 30/09/2018.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of documents mentioned in your statement of case.

1. The current account overdraft/bank account facility letter/agreement including the Terms and Conditions of the account and overdraft facility.

2. The Demand/Termination Notice.

3. Notices of Sums in Arrears.

4. Notice of Assignment

5. Default Notice.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you don't expect to have the documents available immediately, I'd be grateful if you could agree, in writing, to an extension of time for filing my defence pursuant to CPR 15.5, to a maximum of 28 days so that I may inform the court accordingly.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely
Your Name

I would definately send a Subject Access request over to HSBC directly as well to gather more information.

Any background/details on the case that might help ?
when was the account defaulted ? ( as it wasn't assigned to whoever the claimant is until feb 2018 I'd assume not that long ago ?) EDIT: don't worry found the rest of the thread.

Really want to be working on defence now.

**Amethyst** · 24th September 2018, 10:51:AM

Right, on the SAR to HSBC ask for a full list of transactions to see about the charges added to the account before you defaulted it and how the money you were paying up to Dec 17 affected the debt, not sure when things went tits, but likely you want the last 6 months before you sorted out the payment arrangement with HSBC, and then up to the sale of the debt in Feb 2018. Subject Access Request Letter

That's likely to be more beneficial than the CPR letter tbh.

Are you still wanting to get the account just sorted under a payment arrangement with Cabot out of court to avoid risking a CCJ ? YOu could do that with Cabot/MC directly, possibly under a Tomlin Order so the claim stays on hold - and make a complaint to HSBC directly on the charges etc once you have details back from the SAR - then if there is any refund it can go to paying off the debt with Cabot.

**flock** · 27th September 2018, 00:48:AM

Amethyst Thanks already sent SAR to HSBC on the 7th September prior to my acknowledgement on the 12th September Yes, I would like an out of court arrangement to avoid getting a CCJ. For the Tomlin order, would I need to submit my defence before requesting this? Is there a template guide I could use. I am a bit stuck on my defence and running out of time See what I have written so far:

1. I am the Defendant in this case.

2. On 30th August 201X, the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim.

3. I returned the Acknowledgement of Service on 12th September 2018

4. The Defendant sent out a CPR31.14 request letter on 24th September 2018, asking for the following documents to be produced in court:
a. The current account overdraft/bank account facility letter/agreement including the Terms and Conditions of the account and overdraft facility.
b. The Demand/Termination Notice.
c. Notices of Sums in Arrears.
d. Notice of Assignment
e. Default Notice.
f. To date I have not received an acknowledgement of my CPR31.14,nor does it appear any of the requested documents have been forthcoming.

5. The Claimant contends that:-

**MIKE770** · 27th September 2018, 07:24:AM

Example Defence

**Amethyst** · 27th September 2018, 08:12:AM

That's a decent start - I'll look back in after school run xx

**Amethyst** · 27th September 2018, 09:39:AM

Okay just expanded it a little for you - it is vague as to the payments made after ( and before ) you believe the account was defaulted as you only have the credit file entry to go by, and your memory, so it will all want evidencing. Check it over and make any amends. I have kept it to first person and in plain english as well, as if it came to it, you would be needing to argue it at court. For now though it appears you will be submitting this, seeing what the response is and looking to mediate/negotiate a settlement out of court...so in essence it's to put you in a stronger position negotiation wise.

1. I am the Defendant in this case.

2. On 30th August 201X, the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim.

3. I returned the Acknowledgement of Service on 12th September 2018 to enable me to have additional time to request further information about the claim from the Claimant.

4.I sent a formal request for copies of documents mentioned in the claimant's statement of case pursuant to CPR 31.14.

a. The current account overdraft/bank account facility letter/agreement including the Terms and Conditions of the account and overdraft facility.
b. The Demand/Termination Notice.
c. Notices of Sums in Arrears.
d. Notice of Assignment
e. Default Notice.

5. To date I have not received an acknowledgement of my CPR31.14,nor does it appear any of the requested documents have been forthcoming.

6. Although the Claimant's particulars of claim are vague, the claim appears to be for an overdraft on a current account held with HSBC Bank and closed in 2010.

7. The original account subject to the claim was closed due to a dispute over unfair and excessive charges and interest being applied to the balance creating a cycle of debt.

8. I require details of the amount being claimed and a full statement of the account to show how the amount being claimed has arisen.

9. In order to try and find out more information I have sent a formal request for copies of personal data held by HSBC Bank pursuant to the Data Protection Act 2018. I am yet to receive a response.

10. It is necessary for the Claimant to provide the original terms associated with the account to check that charges and interest that may have been applied during the lifetime of the account, and after the account was closed, were able to be legitimately charged.

11. The terms are also required to enable assessment as to whether they created an unfair relationship ( pursuant to s.140a Consumer Credit Act).

12. The Claimant, in their statement of case, states "It was the term of the bank account that any debit balance would be replayable by the Defendant in full on demand". The terms of the original account are required to evidence this. It is also disputed that the original claimant issued any default notice as required under s.87 Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor any demand for immediate repayment of any overdraft sum outstanding.

13.Full statements of the account are required to enable assessment as to the effect of the unfair charges on the account.

14. I have not received Notice of Sums in Arrears from the original creditor or the Claimant since the account was closed in 2010. The notice is required pursuant to s.86 of the Consumer Credit Act.

15. The claimant state in their statement of case that the account was assigned to them in February 2018. This is nearly 8 years since the account was closed. It is contended that the claim is statute barred pursuant to s.5 limitations act 1980.

16. The claimant has not provided a copy of the notice of assignment from either themselves, or the original creditor, HSBC Bank, nor any documentation showing they have a legal right to bring this claim. There have been no details provided of any prior assignment.

17.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

18.I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

19.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

20.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

**flock** · 29th September 2018, 10:40:AM

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

Okay just expanded it a little for you - it is vague as to the payments made after ( and before ) you believe the account was defaulted as you only have the credit file entry to go by, and your memory, so it will all want evidencing. Check it over and make any amends. I have kept it to first person and in plain english as well, as if it came to it, you would be needing to argue it at court. For now though it appears you will be submitting this, seeing what the response is and looking to mediate/negotiate a settlement out of court...so in essence it's to put you in a stronger position negotiation wise.

1. I am the Defendant in this case.

2. On 30th August 201X, the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim.

3. I returned the Acknowledgement of Service on 12th September 2018 to enable me to have additional time to request further information about the claim from the Claimant.

4.I sent a formal request for copies of documents mentioned in the claimant's statement of case pursuant to CPR 31.14.

a. The current account overdraft/bank account facility letter/agreement including the Terms and Conditions of the account and overdraft facility.
b. The Demand/Termination Notice.
c. Notices of Sums in Arrears.
d. Notice of Assignment
e. Default Notice.

5. To date I have not received an acknowledgement of my CPR31.14,nor does it appear any of the requested documents have been forthcoming.

6. Although the Claimant's particulars of claim are vague, the claim appears to be for an overdraft on a current account held with HSBC Bank and closed in 2010.

7. The original account subject to the claim was closed due to a dispute over unfair and excessive charges and interest being applied to the balance creating a cycle of debt.

8. I require details of the amount being claimed and a full statement of the account to show how the amount being claimed has arisen.

9. In order to try and find out more information I have sent a formal request for copies of personal data held by HSBC Bank pursuant to the Data Protection Act 2018. I am yet to receive a response.

10. It is necessary for the Claimant to provide the original terms associated with the account to check that charges and interest that may have been applied during the lifetime of the account, and after the account was closed, were able to be legitimately charged.

11. The terms are also required to enable assessment as to whether they created an unfair relationship ( pursuant to s.140a Consumer Credit Act).

12. The Claimant, in their statement of case, states "It was the term of the bank account that any debit balance would be replayable by the Defendant in full on demand". The terms of the original account are required to evidence this. It is also disputed that the original claimant issued any default notice as required under s.87 Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor any demand for immediate repayment of any overdraft sum outstanding.

13.Full statements of the account are required to enable assessment as to the effect of the unfair charges on the account.

14. I have not received Notice of Sums in Arrears from the original creditor or the Claimant since the account was closed in 2010. The notice is required pursuant to s.86 of the Consumer Credit Act.

15. The claimant state in their statement of case that the account was assigned to them in February 2018. This is nearly 8 years since the account was closed. It is contended that the claim is statute barred pursuant to s.5 limitations act 1980.

16. The claimant has not provided a copy of the notice of assignment from either themselves, or the original creditor, HSBC Bank, nor any documentation showing they have a legal right to bring this claim. There have been no details provided of any prior assignment.

17.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

18.I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

19.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

20.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Thanks waiting to see if any post arrives today but not received any response yet.

1. Is this ok to use for closing case summary:

I believe the facts stated within this Case Summary to be true comprising of 3 pages.

Dated 29th September 2018

2. I also have no name for the county court says County court business centre is this correct?

**flock** · 1st October 2018, 08:56:AM

Amethyst How can I make an offer to settle outside court? Is there any available template or an example to help me with this? Thanks so much

**flock** · 9th October 2018, 20:39:PM

Thanks received response from Mortimer that the case is on hold while they get info from client. Amethyst Please is there a template or an example for making an offer (tomlin order) if needed?

cabot taking me to court for outstanding balance on hsbc overdraft -help needed