Mortimer Clarke Solicitors

**timo30324** · 6th September 2018, 18:02:PM

06/09 - Another telephone call with M/C Sols - suggested that a Tomlin order is the way forward. Can someone please explain a Tomlin Order to me and the pros and cons. I understand it to be an order to stay the claim on the basis that a resolution is found and is stuck too?

**Amethyst** · 6th September 2018, 18:22:PM

Hi Tim, Apologies for missing your post yesterday - having a read back now but here's some info on Tomlin orders for the moment

http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...-credit-claims

**Amethyst** · 6th September 2018, 18:35:PM

Originally posted by timo30324 View Post

Hello - I'm a new member but a long time reader of your forum.

I am in a bit of a panic at the moment and I'd be really grateful for any help you might be able to offer.

I have received a County Court Claim form from Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Client Caboot - Original Client Marbles.

My Current Circumstance and emotive reasons for defending (appreciate this is not a legal defense but may explain to you why i need to and will defend this):

I am currently employed as a corporate accountant for a multinational insurance company - they supply around a third of all general insurance policies in the UK (house and car mainly). They heavily vet my back ground periodically to enure that i am 'a sound and proper person' to fulfill my job function, specifically they looking at credit reports as well as insolvency and public records and a County County Judgement is a big red flag. If Mortimer Clarke continue and do secure a CCJ i have no doubt that i will loose my job and subsequently my vocation.

Absolutely.

I have got myself in a horrible financial position (I'm aware of what i do for a living) mainly due to suffering a massive breakdown as a result of circumstances which were really out of my control. In the last year my doctor has suggested that i may have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and has diagnosed anxiety and an acute stress reaction (I'm not ashamed of this but I am very embarrassed). From a work point of view I completely lost the plot and had nearly nine months off work, six months on full pay, three months on half pay and i returned to work around two months ago and am working on part time hours which has been agreed until the end of the year. I feel a lot better in myself and feel that I am almost back to my old self. However this has had a devastating effect on my finances and has been paired with an expensive relationship breakdown - My job and my career is all i have left and I feel it is under threat!

Do not be embarassed - especially on here... we won't judge you and most of us have been through some pretty cakky stuff financially and otherwise.
You sound like you're getting things together and sorted. This is JUST a credit card debt and you CAN get it sorted out.

My Defense (Where I need your help)

I have made a little bit of lack luster attempt at frustrating their efforts to bring this forward and think that i have made some mistakes along the way.

It'd be more worrying if everything went perfectly tbh

In chronological order:

31/08 - County Court Claim Form from the County Court Business Center Issued 31/08/2018 - Attached (1)
01/09 - County court claim received in the post
01/09 - Acknowledgement of Service submitted online by myself
01/09 - Telephone Call to Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - I explained that their action is likely to cause the lose of my employment and the agent said that they would refer this claim (believe to another department)
01/09 - E-Mail Sent to Mortimer Clarke - Attached (2) Summing up our conversation and offering a repayment plan but under the condition that "it is made without admitting guilt or liability, that it is affordable and appropriate to my circumstance and that you cease this claim immediately"

03/09 - Email Sent to Mortimer Clarke Attached (3) Requesting the following information:" A copy of the default notice, Credit agreement and full statement of accounts, Transcript of all telephone calls between myself and the original creditor., Details of your due diligence practices". Also submitting a CCA Section 77-79 asking for credit agreement and promising £1 payment by postal order. ///////////////////// OK where i think that i have made mistakes --- I have got a postal order for £1 to send to Mortimer Clarke but have not sent it yet but secondly I now think this needs to go to Caboot and not Mortimer.
03/09 Further E-Mail Sent requesting information i thought that i forgot to ask for.Attached (4)
03/09 Telephone call to Mortimer Clarke - They agreed to pull back / Stop the CCJ after i berated them down the phone. The agent said it would be useful for me to send my companies policy on vetting - however the agent did agree to stop the CCJ.
03/09 Further Email Sent to Mortimer Clarke attached (5) - Summing up and confirming that I am pleased that they will stop the CCJ but could they please confirm this to be the case

04/09 - Phone call to Mortimer Clark - asking for a follow up, further confirmation that it is possible to stop the CCJ due to the potential damage to my income - set up a payment plan after running through an income and expenditure form
04/09 - Follow up call - They are still waiting for an internal department to confirm that they will stop the CCJ (What you have already agreed)

05/09 - Follow up call - Same answer, waiting for another department to confirm that they will stop the CCJ.

Okay so you are basically just admitting and offering to pay. That's fair enough if you know the amount is correct and are happy to pay it, just circs have meant you've been unable to.

Personally I don't want to pay them but I need the CCJ stopped and until I get confirmation from the court that they have stopped I need to defend myself. Annoyingly it isn't even a big amount of money but currently I just can't afford to pay it.

That's cool, and as you've put in your next post, the Tomlin order is likely to be the right solution for you to avoid the CCJ, and doesn't sound like you're up for the stress of defending the claim

You haven't said a lot about the original debt. Probably because you're not actually that fussed about what it is and are just panicing about work and want to get it sorted out.

So....

how much is it ?

Does it still show on your credit file at all ?

Do you have any idea when it defaulted and / or when you last made any payment towards the debt ?

Did you not receive a letter before claim from MC/Cabot about a month before the claim arrived ? ( if you did and ignored it that's completely fine, but just keeping an eye on if they are complying with the pre-action protocols )

01/09 - County court claim received in the post

So, if you don't sort things out with a Tomlin order then your defence will be due around 2nd October... so you have plenty of time and need to stop panicing .... you've acknowledged service so it's 33 days from the issue date

xxxxx

If you can answer the questions, give a bit of background to the actual debt, that'll help - then have a read of the Tomlin order post I linked you to, and ask ANY questions you like.

You will also need to do an income and expenditure sheet to work out what you can comfortably afford to pay long term ( until the debt is settled ) - there's no point agreeing something that will be difficult and lead to you missing a payment later as you'll just be back in the same position.

Did you tell MC / Cabot about the PTSD issues at all ?

Having a look through the documents you posted now ( which probably answer questions anyway lol )

Please try not to worry, we're here to help all we can xxxx

**Amethyst** · 6th September 2018, 18:45:PM

Okay £280 plus court fees - you should be able to do that at something like £30 a month IF AFFORDABLE ( accounting for court fee you should be done with it within a year ) It's pretty recent - only opened in 2015, so not a lot of chance on them not having the relevant documents or there being much defence to be honest unless SAV did something majorly wrong.

[I believe an agreement was in place with the original creditor which gave rise to a permanent variation in the contract (credit agreement)

Presumably when you got into difficulty you tried to arrange some kind of token payment while you got back on your feet ? and feel they have defaulted and sold it from under you while you were making those agreed payments ?

The original creditor was aware of my circumstances

and you have informed Cabot/MC of your issues - so that's great. Cabot do have very good vulnerability processes for dealing with claims, MC not so much as yet. Nosiness wise, how did you find MC to speak to ? I know you said you had a bit of a go at them ( understandably) but were they straight with you about the situation and treat you with respect and a touch of sympathy for your situation ?

**timo30324** · 6th September 2018, 19:51:PM

Thank you so much for your reply - it is really helpful and a huge relief.

In all honestly I would like to fight it but am aware my options are very limited to do so. If I were to put in a defence I would want it to be tracked to my local court to appear in person (am aware it maybe like trying to do my own dentistry). The risk could be minimised by holding say £75 a month in a saving account so the CCJ could be paid in full should a judgement be granted within 30 days but having the chance for it to be struck off.

1. The debt does appear as defaulted on my credit file
2. Don't recall the default notice coming but am aware that they probably sent it
3. Pre-action stuff wasn't received at all.

Other debts are in general being serviced correctly but have two which are in bad arrears (past default) - I had put marbles to the back of the que as it is so small.

I have told them about my circumstances as I was well aware that they would classify me as a vulnerable person. The person I spoke to in fairness was sympathetic however I found the company at large not to be. They almost seemed as if they had a malaises tone and almost seemed as if they were taking the p*** when speaking with me. When I did have a go at them I did remain very calm but I did regrettably tell them that I would try and frustrate the process as much as I could.

I have gone over a verbal income and expenditure with them and came to a figure of £37 a month which is affordable. I made them aware that this is in good faith that the CCJ is stopped. I haven't paid them yet or agreed a date each to pay.

I have got the feeling that they litigate on mass so I wonder if they would go to the trouble of countering any defence put to them.

I have also found that there seems to be a lot of nonsense online (Not with legal beagles) how well does a defence work when asking for the deed of assignment just out of interest?

**Amethyst** · 6th September 2018, 20:11:PM

Oh yes there is a lot of crap online.... particularly on certain ex-sites like GetOutofDebtFree.

If you did defend then it would be transferred to your local court before a hearing was set, so you would get to put your case forward.

The Deed of Assignment, yes you can ask for it, it's unlikely you'd get it, but if you cast enough doubt on the assignment of the debt it could be ordered by the court. However, this is Cabot, and they have their systems pretty well sorted so it is unlikely there would be an issue, and if that was the only argument you were left with you could end up adding further costs to the amount you'd have to pay after judgment ( unreasonable behaviour could attract full costs). The deed of assignment isn't anything magical - it's basically an agreement between SAV and Cabot saying Cabot buy the debts for Xp in the poundand a list of account numbers and personal details that are being sold/assigned across ( and any copy you'd get would be very heavily redacted ).

No I think you are doing right, as it is a small and a recent debt, if you can settle now and have the claim stayed, then discontinued once you've completed the payments, and have that agreement in writing, then it's out of your hair and not so much of a worry. For £280 plus the court fee I don't see a lot of point in you risking having judgment and possibly having additional costs added to it so you couldn't settle within 28 days from judgment, and then potentially putting your job at risk.

Seems you need to start looking at the two larger debts in arrears before they start looking at further action so better to concentrate on those as they might be harder to get paid off by affordable installments in a decent timescale to avoid them wanting security of a judgment.

Get this sorted out, if MC are happy to settle under a Tomlin get a draft off of them and check they aren't going to add £100 on to lodge it ( some firms do, some don't so best to check as that would be disprop ). The other thing you could do if you were disciplined enough to save that £75 a month, is just keep on with your defence and hope that the court is slow and it's 4/5 months before you get to a hearing then pay it off.... ( but you'll be coming up on Christmas then and I know when things are generally tight discipline on these things tends to go out the window )

Oh and yes MC will go in to court if it's defended, or it'd get stayed while they find the documents, then threaten a summary judgment hearing. Have a read through some other Cabot / MC threads on here - though every case is different it gives you an idea how things work.

Nope I reckon I'd probably go for the £38 a month with the case on hold until it's paid up. Get it out my hair and look at the other stuff that might be coming up the rear to make sure it's not going to bite you on the arse in the next few months.

( Sorry this is a ramble, I tend to think as I type ) xxxx

**timo30324** · 22nd September 2018, 13:29:PM

Thank you again for your help - the Tomlin order has just dropped through the post.

However they have not signed it. I will do as i have promised and will sign and return it. However I am concerned that they for what ever reason will either mess up or not send it to the court. Is it advisable to file my defense anyway?

I was thinking of something on these lines

1.Claimant and defendant have agreed upon a Tomlin order - it is
respectfully requested that the court stay proceedings.
2.Should the claimant not present the Tomlin order as agreed the
defendant requests that the following defense is considered
3. Claimant has failed to comply with a request for the credit
agreement and statement of accounts to be supplied virtue of
section 77-79 of the consumer credit act 1974 - A statutory fee of
£1 has been sent via a postal order
4. Claimant has failed to comply with a request to receive a copy
of the default notice which is necessary to prove the validly of
their claim by virtue of section 88 of the credit consumer act
1974
5.Claimant has failed to comply with the courts cpr.14???
requesting necessary documents which are needed to fully defend
this claim
6. Claimant has failed to provide a copy of the deed
of assignment - The deed is necessary to prove their entitlement
to service any debt and bring forward a claim against me.
7. Claimant has presented with a vague description of particulars
of claim making it possible to verify their claim,

**Amethyst** · 22nd September 2018, 13:38:PM

The claim was issued 31/08/2018 so your defence isn't due until the 3rd October.

You can't enter a defence based on out of court settlement negotiations ( which is what the Tomlin order so far is ) so no, if you do enter a defence because negotiations aren't concluded it would be your full defence based on the circumstances of the claim without taking the negotiations into account.

Could you send me a copy of the Tomlin, just to check pls. admin@legalbeagles.info .

**timo30324** · 22nd September 2018, 13:57:PM

Thank you - Sent to your E_Mail

Mortimer Clarke Solicitors