*** SETTLED ** Egg / Cabot / No CCA

[hrvey180]

Hi all,
thanks for the help in advance

Cabot have bought an old Egg Loan taken out in 2007/8. After problems I defaulted in March 2009 and been on a DMP long term.

I asked for CCA in Jan and have had a letter back saying Cabot cannot provide this and that the debt is unenforceable.

The account has fallen off my credit file and I was wondering if people think I am safe to stop paying as Cabot cannot provide the CCA.

Many thanks,
Jon

[Amethyst]

How long have you been paying ( since 2009 ?) and what's the current balance on the debt ? Although the debt is unenforceable and will no longer appear on your credit file ( unless they did go to court and obtain a CCJ ( after finding the documents ) ) they can still chase you and ask you to pay it. You could probably sort out a full and final settlement at a very low % of the debt if you wanted to be certain it was shut down forever, otherwise stopping paying - unless and until they find the agreement they couldn't really do a lot. Was the letter a definite 'no agreement exists we're closing the account' or more a ' we can't find it right now so it's unenforceable, but we'll be back if we do find it' letter ?

[hrvey180]

How long have you been paying ( since 2009 ?) and what's the current balance on the debt ? Although the debt is unenforceable and will no longer appear on your credit file ( unless they did go to court and obtain a CCJ ( after finding the documents ) ) they can still chase you and ask you to pay it. You could probably sort out a full and final settlement at a very low % of the debt if you wanted to be certain it was shut down forever, otherwise stopping paying - unless and until they find the agreement they couldn't really do a lot. Was the letter a definite 'no agreement exists we're closing the account' or more a ' we can't find it right now so it's unenforceable, but we'll be back if we do find it' letter ?

Hi,

Been paying since 2009 with Stepchange on a DMP. The Balance in now just over 5k not sure what would constitute a good Full and Final offer.

The letter was not a "We are closing the account", it said

"We have not been able to get the information requested from the original lender. If this information becomes available to us we will complete your request, but until we are able to supply this your Credit Agreement is unenforceable" "This means we are not permitted to obtain a judgement or decree against you in Court, but we can still request that you repay. We would like to thank you for your payments, and ask that you continue on your plan so that you can repay your account."

Thanks for the advice
Jon

[quintonside]

Hi, what did you end up doing? I’m in exactly the same position!

[patientx]

Hi,I am also in the same position with 3 so-called unenforceable debts with CABOT and PRA
Patient x

[charitynjw]

Hi,

Been paying since 2009 with Stepchange on a DMP. The Balance in now just over 5k not sure what would constitute a good Full and Final offer.

The letter was not a "We are closing the account", it said

"We have not been able to get the information requested from the original lender. If this information becomes available to us we will complete your request, but until we are able to supply this your Credit Agreement is unenforceable" "This means we are not permitted to obtain a judgement or decree against you in Court (at the moment - my addition), but we can still request that you repay. We would like to thank you for your payments, and ask that you continue on your plan so that you can repay your account."

quintonside
& patientx

If you are still on a DMP & paying, the agreement isn't going to be statute-barred (6 years from last missed payment/written acknowledgement if you stop paying). The link explains in more detail.

Atm it would seem that they cannot produce copies of the original agreement (or suitable reconstructions). They also may be having problems sourcing relevant T&Cs.If so it is unenforceable if you have made a *CCA 1974 s78 request for them
If they do find all of those they could make the agreement enforceable again.(Ie pursue through the court if necessary).

*Did you do so?
If yes, why?

[patientx]

quintonside
& patientx

If you are still on a DMP & paying, the agreement isn't going to be statute-barred (6 years from last missed payment/written acknowledgement if you stop paying). The link explains in more detail.

Atm it would seem that they cannot produce copies of the original agreement (or suitable reconstructions). They also may be having problems sourcing relevant T&Cs.If so it is unenforceable if you have made a *CCA 1974 s78 request for them
If they do find all of those they could make the agreement enforceable again.(Ie pursue through the court if necessary).

*Did you do so?
If yes, why?

Thanks and yes I got a similar response re unenforceable debt after requesting a CCA and SARS (which showed up a number of incorrect details so very helpful if I want to take this further!)...and would advise everyone with debt issues to request both documents. Based on the above guidance I have now stopped paying my DMP (doing so for 6-7 yrs so believe most of the bought debt will have been repaid by now?)
PatientX

[Amethyst]

Stopping the payments may encourage the owner of the debt to take court action - and gives them slightly more impetus to make an effort to locate the documents. If there are other issues that may assist with defending the case, or to encourage them to accept a low full & final settlement offer ( and you're in a position to pay a full & final settlement ) then that's fine, but they are unlikely to simply vanish ... they still have 6 years from the date of your last payment to find the agreement and try enforcing through court.

When you say stopped the DMP do you just mean the pro-rata payment to this specific debt ?

[patientx]

Stopping the payments may encourage the owner of the debt to take court action - and gives them slightly more impetus to make an effort to locate the documents. If there are other issues that may assist with defending the case, or to encourage them to accept a low full & final settlement offer ( and you're in a position to pay a full & final settlement ) then that's fine, but they are unlikely to simply vanish ... they still have 6 years from the date of your last payment to find the agreement and try enforcing through court.

When you say stopped the DMP do you just mean the pro-rata payment to this specific debt ?

Thanks for this advice and yes stopped the monthly payments via my DMP...CABOT have already apologized for Admin mistakes in the account due to human error!!...is this acceptable?

Patient X

[Amethyst]

If there have been 'Admin Errors' then they will need to correct them and provide all the relevant information in order to enforce the debt. I would wait and see what they write to you next - they do have six years from now to take action so it's not over unfortunately.

You have the SAR info so can check anything Cabot provide against that. If you get into a better position at some point you could try to get it settled off at a discount - do you actually know what is outstanding on the debt? ( does your DMP report remaining balance back to you?)

[patientx]

If there have been 'Admin Errors' then they will need to correct them and provide all the relevant information in order to enforce the debt. I would wait and see what they write to you next - they do have six years from now to take action so it's not over, unfortunately.

You have the SAR info so can check anything Cabot provide against that. If you get into a better position at some point you could try to get it settled off at a discount - do you actually know what is outstanding on the debt? ( does your DMP report remaining balance back to you?)

Thanks, Amethyst
Good measured advice....current debt £3,500 going back 7 years with CABOT when they bought it from Lloyds (at I am sure a knockdown price as it was taken out in 2004. .....I am a retired social worker 72 yrs and not concerned any longer with my credit ratings....could continue to argue the case with CABOT or make a small final settlement!!......would CABOT be glad to get me off their books and avoid any Hassell as they must have already got their payment from such an old debt???....the SARS and CAA has produced good background info if need be.
What do you think?
PatientX

[quintonside]

Just for info.

I decided against the advice of stop paying, as it didn't sit completely right with me. (My sole opinion). Instead i contacted Cabot and said i had been given impartial advice to stop paying, but as a gesture of goodwill i was prepared to offer 5% as full and final settlement. They pushed back and asked for 10%. I left it a few days and said all i could do was the 5% rounded up to the nearest £100 (equated to 5.8%) which they accepted. I asked for written confirmation that the account balance would be set to 0 and closed upon my payment etc etc which they obliged.


Some will argue i wasted money on an unenforceable debt, but i have piece of mind and written confirmation that the matter is closed for good.

[Amethyst]

5.8% is pretty good going Quintonside, can't see oneone being miffed at you for that xxx Well done for getting it sorted :

anyway...

You could probably sort out a full and final settlement at a very low % of the debt if you wanted to be certain it was shut down forever

[quintonside]

Thanks Amethyst

Got one more Cabot debt to settle when they confirm they cant provide the agreement. Hopefully this week.

And 2 with Lowell, who have been updating me since my request on 7 Feb that they are 'still trying to find the agreements'


My final 2 debts were never defaulted (i cant get one added) so are still on my credit file. So if i use this tactic ill get partially satisfied markers, which i'm not sure i want.

[quintonside]

Any suggestions on the Lowell debts.

One is a former Lloyds credit card, the other a former Halifax credit card.

Both debts not on my credit file as defaults were over 6 years ago.

Approx 2 years to run on current payment amounts.

I requested copies of the CCA agreements on 7 February.

Lowell responded on 18 February to say, acknowledged the request, would try to provide in 12 days if not would update me in 40 days. Accounts put on hold in the meantime.

Lowell wrote again on 27 March to say, still not received them from original lenders but they are still waiting responses. Accounts remain on hold.

I called them today 8 April, and asked for update. They still not received, no timeline to accept they cant provide them, but the account remains on hold. Would not accept any form of discounted settlement on the accounts.


What should i do? tell CCS to stop paying? or how long should i give them?

TIA