Appeal CCJ - appellants Notice (Small Claims) HELP

[grabbit44]

I received a letter before action from the DCA that did not relate to the Credit card in question, so I sent a pre-action Protocol request for information that took "six-months" to reply, then only enclosed a Credit Card Agreement (minus separate T&C's) and some statements - no other Documents such as DN or NOA included, but action still threatened.

I looked at Noddle and discovered that 4-years of account history was missing for this debt - the claimant (LOWELL) in their WS said they had reported on this account since taking it over from June 2014 - but there was nothing there at all for 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011. The Judge was satisfied account now owned by them - he did not want to see a DOA.

I did a lot of research on various forums to prepare my defence where I Mentioned the Claim was illegal as the account was SB under the limitations act s.5 and should be struck out - the claimant changed Solicitor and I received a repeat of the Docs plus a reconstituted NOA that had no account number at all and could have related to anything, twinned with a letter dated the same date 18 July 2014 from the DCA, both never received. The claim continued and I made a good WS. The claimant WS enclosed Documents that "now included a reconstituted DN dated 16th May 2011" that also had no account number it was just a template saying I had to pay £240.60, this only brought amount down to credit limit and "nothing more for the missed payments". (Penalty fees of £12 each were included within that figure). Would that DN remedy the breach? Judge did not even ask for any original document.

At the hearing the Claimant's Advocate produced bundles on case law - none of which were even looked at. I argued all the points and emphasised the account was statute barred and that the serving of a DF was only a procedure, not a cause of action - but the Judge "compared this account to a HP agreement as being the same thing" and as the DF notice was 16th May 2011 and the claim issued 18th April 2017 he said he said the six-years clock ticked from the issue and the claimant was just in time! I proved with a water bill that I had moved address and a new tenancy started 16th May 2011, I never received any DF notice and it has to be delivered to be valid. He was satisfied it was served. I asked it he did not want to see a copy of the DOA as there was doubt of ownership of this account and he said not necessary.
The Claimant's Advocate asked for costs of his attendance due to MY behaviour! I asked to appeal and the Judge said NO. when writing up the order the Claimant's Advocate reminded hm No appeal.

I believe the Argos Card "missing T&C never disclosed" may be the key - as with PRA v Doyle

I found these further T&C's online: 7.3 If you fail to pay your minimum monthly payment or any payment you make is late or not enough to pay off the minimum payment due on an Interest Free Plan or a Fixed Payment Plan, the outstanding balance of that Plan may immediately become payable in full.

[grabbit44]

CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

Just got the CCJ: And Upon being satisfied in particular there has been a valid assignment of the debt in question to the claimant from Home Retail Group Card Services Ltd. (Unexceptional debt claim arising from assignment to claimant. Various matters raised by D, re service of DN/Limitation, validity of Assignment, all adequately responded to by C, on balance of probability standard).
Appeal was refused at the hearing - no merit. NO MERIT?

My defence stated SB as did my WS (there had been no acknowledgment or payment for six-years and three-months) - I thought it was for the claimant to prove the debt was not SB - not for the Judge to say this was the same as a HP agreement and the clock started from date of the alleged DN

I received a letter before action from the DCA that did not relate to the Credit card in question, so I sent a pre-action Protocol request for information that took "six-months" to reply, then only enclosed a Credit Card Agreement (minus separate T&C's) and some statements - no other Documents such as DN or NOA included, but action still threatened.

I looked at Noddle and discovered that 4-years of account history was missing for this debt - the claimant (LOWELL) in their WS said they had reported on this account since taking it over from June 2014 - but there was nothing there at all for 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011. The Judge was satisfied account now owned by them - he did not want to see a DOA.

I did a lot of research on various forums to prepare my defence where I Mentioned the Claim was illegal as the account was SB under the limitations act s.5 and should be struck out - the claimant changed Solicitor and I received a repeat of the Docs plus a reconstituted NOA that had no account number at all and could have related to anything, twinned with a letter dated the same date 18 July 2014 from the DCA, both never received. The claim continued and I made a good WS. The claimant WS enclosed Documents that "now included a reconstituted DN dated 16th May 2011" that also had no account number it was just a template saying I had to pay £240.60, this only brought amount down to credit limit and "nothing more for the missed payments". (Penalty fees of £12 each were included within that figure). Would that DN remedy the breach? Judge did not even ask for any original document.

At the hearing the Claimant's Advocate produced bundles on case law - none of which were even looked at. I argued all the points and emphasised the account was statute barred and that the serving of a DF was only a procedure, not a cause of action - but the Judge "compared this account to a HP agreement as being the same thing" and as the DF notice was 16th May 2011 and the claim issued 18th April 2017 he said he said the six-years clock ticked from the issue and the claimant was just in time! I proved with a water bill that I had moved address and a new tenancy started 16th May 2011, I never received any DF notice and it has to be delivered to be valid. He was satisfied it was served. I asked it he did not want to see a copy of the DOA as there was doubt of ownership of this account and he said not necessary.
The Claimant's Advocate asked for costs of his attendance due to MY behaviour! I asked to appeal and the Judge said NO. when writing up the order the Claimant's Advocate reminded hm No appeal.

I believe the Argos Card "missing T&C never disclosed" may be the key - as with PRA v Doyle

I found these further T&C's online: 7.3 If you fail to pay your minimum monthly payment or any payment you make is late or not enough to pay off the minimum payment due on an Interest Free Plan or a Fixed Payment Plan, the outstanding balance of that Plan may immediately become payable in ful

[grabbit44]

Re: CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

BUMP

[grabbit44]

Appeal CCJ - appellants Notice (Small Claims) HELP

Sorry I have post already, but got no response and need some advice.

DO I MAKE OUT FIVE-COPIES OF THE NOTICE AND GET THEM ALL STAMPED AT THE COURT AND PAY £120, THEN SEND ONE-COPY TO THE CLAIMANT?

Just got the CCJ: And Upon being satisfied in particular there has been a valid assignment of the debt in question to the claimant from Home Retail Group Card Services Ltd. (Unexceptional debt claim arising from assignment to claimant. Various matters raised by D, re service of DN/Limitation, validity of Assignment, all adequately responded to by C, on balance of probability standard).
Appeal was refused at the hearing - no merit. NO MERIT?

My defence stated SB as did my WS (there had been no acknowledgment or payment for six-years and three-months) - I thought it was for the claimant to prove the debt was not SB - not for the Judge to say this was the same as a HP agreement and the clock started from date of the alleged DN

I received a letter before action from the DCA that did not relate to the Credit card in question, so I sent a pre-action Protocol request for information that took "six-months" to reply, then only enclosed a Credit Card Agreement (minus separate T&C's) and some statements - no other Documents such as DN or NOA included, but action still threatened.

I looked at Noddle and discovered that 4-years of account history was missing for this debt - the claimant (LOWELL) in their WS said they had reported on this account since taking it over from June 2014 - but there was nothing there at all for 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011. The Judge was satisfied account now owned by them - he did not want to see a DOA.

I did a lot of research on various forums to prepare my defence where I Mentioned the Claim was illegal as the account was SB under the limitations act s.5 and should be struck out - the claimant changed Solicitor and I received a repeat of the Docs plus a reconstituted NOA that had no account number at all and could have related to anything, twinned with a letter dated the same date 18 July 2014 from the DCA, both never received. The claim continued and I made a good WS. The claimant WS enclosed Documents that "now included a reconstituted DN dated 16th May 2011" that also had no account number it was just a template saying I had to pay £240.60, this only brought amount down to credit limit and "nothing more for the missed payments". (Penalty fees of £12 each were included within that figure). Would that DN remedy the breach? Judge did not even ask for any original document.

At the hearing the Claimant's Advocate produced bundles on case law - none of which were even looked at. I argued all the points and emphasised the account was statute barred and that the serving of a DF was only a procedure, not a cause of action - but the Judge "compared this account to a HP agreement as being the same thing" and as the DF notice was 16th May 2011 and the claim issued 18th April 2017 he said he said the six-years clock ticked from the issue and the claimant was just in time! I proved with a water bill that I had moved address and a new tenancy started 16th May 2011, I never received any DF notice and it has to be delivered to be valid. He was satisfied it was served. I asked it he did not want to see a copy of the DOA as there was doubt of ownership of this account and he said not necessary.
The Claimant's Advocate asked for costs of his attendance due to MY behaviour! I asked to appeal and the Judge said NO. when writing up the order the Claimant's Advocate reminded hm No appeal.

I believe the Argos Card "missing T&C never disclosed" may be the key - as with PRA v Doyle

I found these further T&C's online: 7.3 If you fail to pay your minimum monthly payment or any payment you make is late or not enough to pay off the minimum payment due on an Interest Free Plan or a Fixed Payment Plan, the outstanding balance of that Plan may immediately become payable in ful

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

Morning, I've merged your threads and moved them to the court claim forum so you get some assistance.

Is the CCJ for £240+court fee/costs ?

Presumably the other side were arguing BMW v Hart ?

Did you argue that the agreement was unenforceable as it was incomplete at all - either non compliance with s 78 or s61 CCA ? or just the assignment, default & SB issues? Were any CCA issues on the agreement argued in your defence ?

[grabbit44]

Re: CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

Thank you Amethyst.

The CCJ is for £2031.53 plus interest of £81.26 (1-year at 4% - not 4 years at 8%) and cost of £355.00. The Judge did not award the Claimant costs for their attendance - which he asked for in view of MY BEHAVIOUR!

BMW v Hart was not argued nor any other case law. I stated in my Defence and WS that the separate T&C's were never disclosed and that the debt was SB. The Judge shot me down several times for interrupting.

Pre-Action Protocol request for information: Prior to issuing proceedings the Claimant failed to disclose requested evidence as proof of claim and for which they intended to rely upon at trial. This caused prejudice to me from the outset. In particular, there was no evidence of any NOA from the original creditor nor any Default Notice and separate terms and condition to the Argos credit card agreement were never disclosed at all. The threat of issuing a claim was carried out in any event in spite of the fact the claimant had insufficient evidence to pursue the claim. And they issued the claim 18 April 2017 without any proof they owned this debt, if they had provided proof to me prior to this I would more than likely made an offer of payment -

[grabbit44]

Re: CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

I know it cost £120 for me to file an appeal - what would be good grounds? Also do I fill in five copies of N164 and get them all stamped at the court?

A Default Notice was never received by myself and I was able to prove this fact with a Water Bill. I had moved to a new address Monday 16^th May 2011 - the exact same date as a reconstructed Default Notice emerged at the eleventh-hour as an exhibit that had no account number and no signature – this was questioned by the District Judge as this document was a template – but he did not request to see any original he was satisfied. However that same Default Notice asked for £240.60 and owould have only brought arrears down to the credit limit – it did not remedy the breach as the missing contractual payments appear to have been forgotten about.

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

Where did the HP agreement comment come into it if the claimant wasn't arguing BMW v Hart ? Bit odd really.

so the DN was defective in that had you complied with it it would not have remedied the breach ?

Does the agreement refer directly to the terms which weren't provided ? ( so you could argue they form part of the agreement and weren't supplied etc )

It seems the other side was asking for costs due to unreasonable behaviour and the Judge disagreed. Might be worth getting a consumer credit specialist to look over your papers and advise re the appeal as your risk of costs will be higher if you take the appeal forward and it's not allowed.

[MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION] [MENTION=7765]Joanna C[/MENTION]; [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION]; could maybe have a look ?

[grabbit44]

Re: CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

<sub>The Judge compared this simple account to that of a HP agreement - there is clearly no comparison!

The DF notice would have only brought the balance down to the agreed credit limit - three missed contractual payments plus interest were not included in the £240.60 asked for - I do not know if £240.60 would have remedied the breach if I had paid that sum alone?

The CCA clearly states that the T&C's are only part - the rest can be found under further conditions - and these further conditions certainly form part of that same agreement.

Time is running out - I need to get something to the Court early next week

I also specified in my Defence and WS that no NOA had ever been received by me - I lived in a new block of flats with a street address number and a flat number and it is true that the post went to 7 or 22 - the judge commented that this was not the claimants' fault. I had also written the Van Lynn Developments V Pelias Construction ruling and that such notice had to be received to be valid - I asked if the Judge if he did not want to see the actual NOA and he said not necessary.</sub>

[grabbit44]

Re: CCJ on SB Debt /Appeal Refused - Satisfied inn particular VALID ASSIGNMENT

Whilst it took the claimant six-months to reply to my pre-action protocol, that letter is dated 23/03/17 and enclosed only copy of a CCA (minus separate T&C's) and statements, but those statements have a report date of 07/10/16 - so they have sat on these few documents for five-months longer than than they needed to when that is all they have sent to me - it would suggest that Home Retail Card Service could not supply them with copy of any DN or NOA - I believe these documents were concocted to fool the Judge and it worked - I believe this is fraud

DN dated 16 May 2011. V0.11 - BDF2TY - Letter Template - not a true copy (account number & trading as fields not even filled in) states: In respect of the Credit Card Agreement reference number <Account Number> made between Mr .......... of the above address and Home Retail Group Card Services Ltd, trading as <T10R1> Card Services (the company), of Thynne Street, Bolton... This was one piece of paper and had no signature. The Judge did question this document as it was a template but then said to the Claimants' solicitor there would have been a computer record somewhere... This document did not emerge until the 11th hour and was enclosed as an exhibit with the Claimants' WS - for the sake of having a document to submit as evidence

NOA dated 18 July 2014 had no account information either - I think the Judge would have accepted a hand written post it note.

[warwick65]

Re: Appeal CCJ - appellants Notice (Small Claims) HELP

Hi Grabbitt

I have tried very hard to follow your thread and get it clear in my head what has happened. It is probably more about my reading than your expression.

If I am reading it correctly

You received a LBA and responded with a letter. I am not sure what your letter said and asked for but did you at any time make a request under S77-79 CCA 1974 along with the fee?

I know you disagree with the judge as to when the cause of action is accrued but this is a very complicated area and will often depend on the wording of the contract you have - for example Capital One used to lay out very specific time limits in its contract before it could a) issue a DN and b) issue a claim

You say you entered a defence but of course no one has seen what you entered

You say you did a good witness statement- I have no doubt it was expressive but was it based purely around your defence?- I believe that a WS can only be based on a defence

You discuss the NOA and DOA but seem to use them interchangeably , maybe I misunderstood. You need to ask for sight of the Deed before you can plead it in your WS - did you mention Lord Denning's ruling in your WS?

In court did you try to bring up areas that were neither in your WS or your Defence

Again, and I may be wrong on this - if you file a defence this moves from the Small claims track and if you lose you will be liable for costs - bearing this in mind maybe the claimant would use a barrister - they are quite expensive

Have you consulted a solicitor over this to see if you have a case for an appeal - it gets very complicated when a Judge has said no as first you have to prove he/she erred in law and not just that you disagree

I am sorry to sound so negative but it would be irresponsible of anyone to encourage you to start an appeal without making you aware of the implications
@pt2537 @Diana M

You could possibly contact either of the above to see if they will give free initial advice as to the possible benefits of an appeal

Without more details it is hard to say

By the way probably best not to go in saying they have committed fraud or done some illegal. I believe that even in cases where there seems a strong likelihood of something not quote right happening , seasoned barristers word it differently so that they judge is guided to see that on the balance of probabilities doc x wasn't sent/signed/didn't comply with regulations.

[grabbit44]

Re: Appeal CCJ - appellants Notice (Small Claims) HELP

Warwick65 - thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I sent a Pre-action Protocol letter - asking for all documents - I got it off this site. I asked for CCA statements, DN, NOA and Deed of Assignment - this was also specified in my defence and WS. I did not specifically make a request under S77-79 CCA 1974 along with the fee?
Stepchange and other debt people suggest the simple credit card debt is SB after no acknowledgement or payment for over six years - my defence and WS were comprehensive and the Judge commented that he could I had put a lot of work in - so all areas were covered to bring up at the hearing (this was Small Claims track). I tried to counsult a solicitor via the CAB and phoned several times but they never got back. As already said the Judge compared the Argos store card to a HP agreement.

I appreciate your reply - I agree that it would be irresponsible of anyone to encourage me to start an appeal and the implications...

This has to be paid by 01st November. I have decided to send in a N245 to pay by instalments - Stepchange have worked out my budget - I am only a part time worker on low income and I will be offering £5 a month - and two other credit card debts will be offered the same £5 each per month. in the meantime they will probably jump the gun and sent HCEO, but we rent a property and have nothing of any value

[MIKE770]

Re: Appeal CCJ - appellants Notice (Small Claims) HELP

Whilst these over paid so called professional DJs get away with misinterpreting the legislation/law then the justice (ummmm??????) system and members of Parliament are being compromised! not only the people on the defending end = all sums up to a weak Governance by MPs and leaders of this so called fair country,

Judges get away with it when Appeal Judges state the DJ has misdirected themselves, (NOT), remember what happened to Judge Jeffries.??

Whats more is if you are poor then you cannot afford to pay for the so called fair justice system!

Compare when a rich person/company need to go to court - amazing a case is heard in the High Court within weeks - says it all.

[grabbit44]

Re: Appeal CCJ - appellants Notice (Small Claims) HELP

Thank you MIKE770 - I certainly feel deprived of justice - even the court make such a drama over the exemption fee form - I just sent a Postal order for £50 (cost £6.25 on top) for the fee payable for the N245.

If I had lots of money I would fight this, but I don't.

Myself and a friend had a good strong case against a police force some years ago and as a two law abiding citizens we had legal aid to fight it all the way - it took seven years of battling! An internal discipline hearing found officers guilty and a letter of apology was sent, but they pleaded it was all our fault. What is very interesting is that the first solicitor said our case worth £1,500 each, then advised us to settle for £1,000 each - we did not settle and lost our Legal Aid, buy won it back on appeal and a transfer of solictors was allowed. They did a fantastic job in getting all the evidence. The incident happened at 02.30 in the morning, but evidence showed a 999 call at 03.00 in the morning to which the officers were acting upon - but all what they said did not add up because they did not have the time to do all of those things - the arrest appears to have been reconstructed to cover up a mistake. We were set for trial with a Jury and understood damages award to us could off the scale - which got an out of court settlement for tens of thousands of pounds and entire costs of £47,000 - I am grateful for the Legal Aid that supported us, it is such a pity I could not fight these people in the same way