Copies of original agreements

[Onestepatatime]

Evening all,

I have a number of DCA's chasing accounts, none to court proceedings merely letter tennis at present, however a couple of them have sent me copies of the original agreements and both are illegible to the best part- oddly the larger writing i.e. My details is readable however the agreement wording is no more than spilt ink on the paper?
Should I request a legible copy or should I sit on them until court proceedings are threatened? I also note from the CCA sec78 info that they have not produced any other documents which they should do?, in fairness I haven't specifically request a sec78, so perhaps why they haven't provided them as yet? Should I continue with letter tennis, if so, I think it will be hard not to have to do a sec 78 request, but will this just annoy them?

One has sent what appears to be a reconstituted set of T&C's given that they are not on headed paper? Within I notice that they have used my current address in part and my original address within another part? Any advice as the agreement would have been issued from my original address of 10+ yrs ago.

Sorry for all the questions.

[PAWS]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Now I do not have the brains that many of the beagles have but I would advise you send each of them a cca request by recorded post. You say they have already sent copies of the agreements -was this a while ago or just to back up their own letters?
Either way I would send of proper requests. Then go through all they send you with a fine tooth comb looking for any anomalies etc. I am sure the clever chaps on here will comment on any questions when you have the info.
As I say I am no expert but it is always best to have a nice deep trench dug before they start firing.

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Thanks Paws,
One of them has now sent a statement of payments made to a previous DCA but no actual statements of the account as such?

[PAWS]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Let’s see what the expert beagles have to say and in the meantime, get all the paperwork you can together so you don’t miss anything.

[Kati]

Re: Copies of original agreements

tagging [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] [MENTION=98117]warwick65[/MENTION] [MENTION=48934]Debt Camel[/MENTION]?

[PAWS]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Thanks Kati! xx

[Kati]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Thanks Kati! xx

you're always welcome PAWS xx
[MENTION=102381]Onestepatatime[/MENTION] ... did you send a proper CCA to each creditor?? http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...y-of-Agreement

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Not at all, I merely asked a question?

[charitynjw]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Send CCA requests to the creditors/debt purchasers for all the accounts which are CCA regulated.
Failure to completely comply with the requests will render the agreements unenforceable (until/unless they do subsequently send compliant documentation).
You will be protecting your legal position for the princely sum of £1 (fee) each, + postage.

[Diana M]

Re: Copies of original agreements

I have a number of DCA's chasing accounts, none to court proceedings merely letter tennis at present, however a couple of them have sent me copies of the original agreements and both are illegible to the best part- oddly the larger writing i.e. My details is readable however the agreement wording is no more than spilt ink on the paper?
Should I request a legible copy or should I sit on them until court proceedings are threatened? I also note from the CCA sec78 info that they have not produced any other documents which they should do?, in fairness I haven't specifically request a sec78, so perhaps why they haven't provided them as yet? Should I continue with letter tennis, if so, I think it will be hard not to have to do a sec 78 request, but will this just annoy them?

One has sent what appears to be a reconstituted set of T&C's given that they are not on headed paper? Within I notice that they have used my current address in part and my original address within another part? Any advice as the agreement would have been issued from my original address of 10+ yrs ago.

Sorry for all the questions.

There is no straight answer to your questions.

Each debt will be different depending on so many variables such as the account opening date (before/after April 2007), the method of opening (online/pre-approved application invitation/in-store/by phone etc) and the product (loan, credit card, HP, bank overdraft) and so on. Are any of these joint debts or secured debts?

It's not only the credit agreement which can make a debt unenforceable.

You need to make a separate post for each of these debts so accurate information can be given.

What I will say is beware of helping any creditor/debt purchaser remedy any of their mistakes. For example don't tell them an agreement is illegible because then they can reconstitute one that is legible.

If any of these debts have the potential to be Statute Barred then consider whether it's a good idea (or not) to leave them alone unless you receive anything which threatens legal action. That would then be the right time to send a CCA Request.

If you're receiving phishing letters or obvious template letters then you need to judge whether they can be ignored as you edge towards SB status.

Less is more pre-litigation because every letter you write has the potential to be shown to a Judge in court. Letter tennis can be damaging in the long run, so pick your words wisely.

Di

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Thanks for the words of wisdom lady Di, I was always of the understanding that to not reply was more damaging than to reply. I suppose it is all about the selection of the written word.

Is it wise to do the CCA request prior to any threatening letters being received? I have one or two that are being dealt with by a law firm in Leeds that haven't specifically mentioned legal threat but are requesting payment within 30 days (a template letter I suspect).

I shall start individual threads when the time comes to go head to head, as I say at present there is nothing too pressing.

Thanks Charity for the heads up.

I shall keep all informed of progress.

[MIKE770]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Lowells of leeds no doubt

[mystery1]

Re: Copies of original agreements

There is no straight answer to your questions.

Each debt will be different depending on so many variables such as the account opening date (before/after April 2007), the method of opening (online/pre-approved application invitation/in-store/by phone etc) and the product (loan, credit card, HP, bank overdraft) and so on. Are any of these joint debts or secured debts?

It's not only the credit agreement which can make a debt unenforceable.

You need to make a separate post for each of these debts so accurate information can be given.

What I will say is beware of helping any creditor/debt purchaser remedy any of their mistakes. For example don't tell them an agreement is illegible because then they can reconstitute one that is legible.

If any of these debts have the potential to be Statute Barred then consider whether it's a good idea (or not) to leave them alone unless you receive anything which threatens legal action. That would then be the right time to send a CCA Request.

If you're receiving phishing letters or obvious template letters then you need to judge whether they can be ignored as you edge towards SB status.

Less is more pre-litigation because every letter you write has the potential to be shown to a Judge in court. Letter tennis can be damaging in the long run, so pick your words wisely.

Di

The thing about that is, you have to plead it in your defence so they can do it then. Better to mention it before hand in my opinion and then if they ignore you, which seems to happen often enough, they'll really piss off a judge and/or suffer cost penalties or even have a harder time getting an adjournment to amend the crap copy when the previous early warnings are brought to the courts attention.

I wouldn't, however, say which specific parts i was on about, just that it wasn't easily legible. I try and fluff the start of the correspondence out at the top before mentioning it as they probably won't read past the first line or 2.

M1

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Copies of original agreements

Thanks mystery, like your train of thought.

[Diana M]

Re: Copies of original agreements

The thing about that is, you have to plead it in your defence so they can do it then. Better to mention it before hand in my opinion

People do things differently.

I would never alert a creditor or debt purchaser to any flaw in a credit agreement (or DN etc) prior to a claim being issued.

If you do that then you give them the opportunity to remedy the problem with a reconstituted version and then issue proceedings when they're ready which will deny you the opportunity to plead a defective document in your Defence.

Once you file your Defence the clock is ticking which puts the Claimant under pressure. It can take a debt purchaser months to correct their mistake (flagged up in the Defence) by which time an Application to strike out the claim might be on the menu.

I suppose it's about tactics. We use Part 18 questions to tie the Claimant in knots while aiming for information which doubles as a confession at the same time ). Ask, don't tell whenever possible.

It's frustrating to take instructions on a claim where the client has already let the cat out the bag.

Di