How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

[guyverdan]

Issue Date: 26th May 2017
Amount approx: £17,000
Claimant: Arrow Global Limited
Original Creditor: HSBC
Particulars of Claim:

1. The claiments claim is for the sum of £17467.59 being monies due from the defendant to the claiment as a consequeuen of the defendant occuring an overdraft whilst operating a bank account with HSBC Bank PLC.
The debt was assigned to the claiment on the 28/03/2014 and notice of assignment provided to the defendant, pursuant to the law of property act 1925.
2. Payment of the above sum has been requested but as at the date herof refused.
3.The Claimant claims to sum of £17467.59
4. C has complied asfar as necessary with the pre-action conduct pratice direction.

Is the debt Statute Barred? Yes
List any letters you have sent: None
Any Other Info:

Hi there,

I am heping a friend (who has no computer) who has recently recieved a County Court Claim form for a Debt with Arrow Global Limited, who he has never heard from or dealt with.

This claim reffers to a rather large (£17k+) Overdraft with HSBC. To start with my friend has never had an overdraft larger than £1000 and even the one he had was not with HSBC. He did however have a loan with HSBC that he took out well over 10 years ago and he hasnt made any payments to it for at least that long. I have checked his credit report and there is no history of any HSBC debt showing anywhere that I can find.

He has spoken with the National Debt line and CAB and they have suggested going down the Statute Barred Route, can someone here advise me on how to help him reply to the Court Forms to defend himself?

Thanks in advance

Dan

[MIKE770]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

First Steps ||

- - - Updated - - -

First Steps ||| CCA Request || CPR 31.14 Request

- - - Updated - - -

First Steps ||| CCA Request || CPR 31.14 RequestSAR (Subject access request)

[guyverdan]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Thanks Mike770, I have looked through this but i am short of time and need to file his defence ASAP. My understanding is that due to the fact it is well over the Statute Barred time frame he should enter something along the lines of:

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on 26 May 2017.

2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is Stature Barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £17467.59 or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

I BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE.

[charitynjw]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Imho, if you can supply a number of different points in the defence, so much the better.
If you only rely on one, & for some reason it is not correct, the Claimant could then just show that the defence has no prospect of success & can apply for a judgement.
Why leave yourself (or more properly in this case, your friend) open to that?

[guyverdan]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Ok, what do you guys think of this as a defence?

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on 26 May 2017.

2. The Defendant has not received any communication from the Claimant regarding the alleged debt in the 3 years since they state they acquired the Debt, this includes the alleged “Notice of Assignment”, which the Claimant is required to provide. Until the Court Claim was received the Defendant was unaware of any alleged Debts belonging to the Claimant.

3 The Claimant states that the Defendant incurred a £17467.59 overdraft whilst operating a Bank Account with HSBC Bank Plc. Whilst the Defendant did use services provided by HSBC back in 2006, this did not include an overdraft facility.

4 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is Stature Barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

5. The Defendant therefor does not acknowledge the debt or liability to the claim and therefore requests that before the Claimant proceeds with the Court Case, that the Claimant provides a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account the Claimant deems to be related to the Defendant, together with any other documentation the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) requires you to provide.

In Summary, the Claimant is requesting payment for a debt that never existed on an account that has not had any communications or transactions on it in well over 10 years. The Claimant has also not followed key rules set out in the “law of property act 1925” and has not provided the Defendant any opportunity to discuss the claim outside of the Courts.
It is with that information the Defendant believes any debt allegedly owed is Stature Barred and that the Claimant is claim is invalid.

[Amethyst]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Issued on 26th May - ok you should have to Wednesday, 28 June 2017

Did you acknowledge the claim ? Send any letter to the claimant or their solicitors?

Needs a little work but not a bad start. i'm just going to move thread to the right forum and will go through it for you xx

Ok, what do you guys think of this as a defence?

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on 26 May 2017.

2. The Defendant has not received any communication from the Claimant regarding the alleged debt in the 3 years since they state they acquired the Debt, this includes the alleged “Notice of Assignment”, which the Claimant is required to provide. Until the Court Claim was received the Defendant was unaware of any alleged Debts belonging to the Claimant.

3 The Claimant states that the Defendant incurred a £17467.59 overdraft whilst operating a Bank Account with HSBC Bank Plc. Whilst the Defendant did use services provided by HSBC back in 2006, this did not include an overdraft facility.

4 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is Stature Barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

5. The Defendant therefor does not acknowledge the debt or liability to the claim and therefore requests that before the Claimant proceeds with the Court Case, that the Claimant provides a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account the Claimant deems to be related to the Defendant, together with any other documentation the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) requires you to provide.

In Summary, the Claimant is requesting payment for a debt that never existed on an account that has not had any communications or transactions on it in well over 10 years. The Claimant has also not followed key rules set out in the “law of property act 1925” and has not provided the Defendant any opportunity to discuss the claim outside of the Courts.
It is with that information the Defendant believes any debt allegedly owed is Stature Barred and that the Claimant is claim is invalid.

[guyverdan]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Thanks Amethyst, I did try to move the thread myself but couldnt find any options thanks for that.

I did acknolodge it online via MCOL for my friend, but I have been too busy to send anything to the Claimant on his behalf.

When I send this to the Court do i need to send a copy to the Claimant too?

[Amethyst]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Okay good, if you acknowledged the claim on MCOL then you should be able to submit the defence online too - which means the court will send to the other side.

You have 28 days from the date the claim was received ( 33 from the date of issue as you are allowed 5 days from service )

So personally, if at all possible would find time today to get your friend to send off two letters to the claimant. They are very important in defending these kinds of claims.

The CCA Request goes to ARROW

The || CPR 31.14 Request goes to the solicitors. in it you can ask for :- the agreement with HSBC, the notice of assignment , statement of account

If you possibly can I would also send a SAR (Subject access request) to HSBC

It doesn't matter that they won't respond fully before your defence deadline, but it matters that you send them to gather the information to give you back up with the defence later.

Also, as the claim is well over £10k it is likely to be on what's called the 'Fast Track' which brings with it slightly higher risks of additional costs, so it would be really beneficial to have these extra defences in place just in case the statute barred argument falls down.

Then the defence can be worked on to include that you have asked for the information.

[guyverdan]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

What if there is no obvious account number?

[Amethyst]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Just on the 'have a back-up defence' matter, presumably you have discussed the case with your friend at some length, sometimes if people got into problems with a loan / credit card / overdraft, HSBC did a managed account which combined all together and allowed lower payments across and extended period. Sometimes they did this unilaterally and sometimes in discussion with the customer/debtor. This doesn't negate the need for original agreements however potentially might affect the statute barred issue, if there was discussion or agreement to doing this with the accounts over the years, when the bank account was shut down/defaulted on eventually and so on.

[Amethyst]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

What if there is no obvious account number?

Just reference the Claim No. - like.............

..........dear sir etc.............

Re:− Arrow Global Ltd v xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - Claim No. xxxxx

With reference to the above claim issued on 26th May 2017 I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of the credit agreement relating to the account in question.

.....etc etc etc ..........

[guyverdan]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

He took out a Loan with HBSC to start a business and quickly became unable to pay it, so he didnt and nobody came knocking.

[guyverdan]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

As for the CPR there is no mention for any documentation over than the "notice off assignement" which my friend never got.

There is also no mention of contract or agreement

That beign the case what should i ask for

[guyverdan]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

Sorry to hound you (sorry for the pun) any news? I would really like to send everything off tomorrow at the latest.

[Amethyst]

Re: How to Defending a County Court Claim for 10 years old Debt

He took out a Loan with HBSC to start a business and quickly became unable to pay it, so he didnt and nobody came knocking.

Okay, did he set up as a Ltd company at all before taking the loan or was he just acting as a sole trader do you know?

As for the CPR there is no mention for any documentation over than the "notice off assignement" which my friend never got.

There is also no mention of contract or agreement

That beign the case what should i ask for

Yes I noticed that, terrible particulars, they likely won't send anything anyway and it doesn't hurt to ask for things not 'quite' mentioned. If it ever came to applying to court to force compliance of the CPR request it would have to only be for the NoA.

You could also ask for further information under CPR 18 - as the case is likely to be in the fast track - so you could do a separate request asking for the agreement, deed of assignment possibly... maybe a full statement of account to show how the amount claimed has been calculated/arrived at, any default notice and any other info you wanted.

The important one, as you believe this was originally a loan, is the CCA 1974 request.

Once those are off we can have a fiddle with the Defence you've worked on so far to ensure everything is covered - you do have it in there but you really need to be able to say you sent a formal request with the statutory fee of £1 for it to have effect re non compliance.

( apols it's been School pick up time )