Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

[Daigoro]

Hi all,

I have recently 'engaged' with Reston Solicitors over an aged credit card default, and it looks like this is the place to come for solid legal advice!!

A brief(ish!) overview of my situation:

I fell out many many years ago with HSBC over a credit card balance that I simply couldn't clear, with the payments I was making covering interest and little more. I approached them asking to freeze the account and the interest, so I could have a chance to clear the debt, but they were not interested in this, so the only tools left to me involved the CCA and SAR malarkey. It quickly became clear that they didn't have a signed copy of the agreement, yet while the account was in dispute they continued to pile interest on, eventually defaulting the account.

I was at one stage offered the chance to make a part payment to settle the account, however I did not have sufficient funds (was in overdraft with the same bank!) to offer a reasonable amount, and this devolved into endless threats & letters back and forth, and for some time token payments were made to keep me out of court. I kept pushing for either a copy of the signed agreement, or confirmation that it did not exist, but neither came. The account was passed back and forth to various 'agents', fizzling out over the years.

Now, I have started receiving demands from Restons, who I have written to offering a small amount for as full and final settlement.

From my reading on the interwebs it seems Restons are the last chance saloon, and are likely to put this in court, so I am looking to negotiate a one time payment to settle the matter. I cannot afford to cover the full amount (over 6K) but am in a position to make a small payment and have no problem in doing this.

The original default is over 6 years old, and credit score isnt a big deal to me, but it would be nice to put the matter to bed for obvious reasons. This has dragged on for over 7 years now!!

Any advice going forward is greatly received.

With thanks, Daigoro

[MIKE770]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

when was the last payment made to the account?

have you acknowledged the debt in any way within the last 6 years

more info be a great help?

- - - Updated - - -

no CCA pre 2007 they may have a problem

[Daigoro]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Hi Mike,

many thanks for the reply, was fearing the tumbleweed there for a moment!

Apologies for the delay in replying, been a bit hectic over recent weeks.

Didnt want to overdo the info in the already long 1st post, but to clarify the original account began way before 2007, I have never acknowledged the debt, but have made several communications in that time, the last payment was made within the last 4 years.

As it stands I have now been waiting 2 weeks, curiously, for a reply to my own response, and have resent the same. Presume they're playing games, will soon see.

Since being led down the route of SARs and CCAs and no signed agreement as a defence, I have found comments that allude to these not being all that strong. With your pre 2007 comment are you meaning that this is in fact a solid show stopper for them?

Would rather make a single payment at this stage of the game to settle the matter, but payment in full is simply not realistic nor reasonable, curious that now they wont reply, I assume I'm just not giving them enough time!

[MIKE770]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

pre 2007 has to have certain requirements with in the agreement - not a fully solid show stopper but can be relevant regarding contents within the agreement.


wil ask [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] to pop in here she is well up on this subject.

[nemesis45]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Hi,

Is the debt with the original creditor or are Restons acting for a debt purchaser?

nem

[Joanna C]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Restons may well be acting for HSBC as we were recently successful in obtaining summary judgment against HSBC in the case HSBC Bank PLC v Sparkes. and Restons were the solicitors on record.

[warwick65]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Hi

It is somewhat of a shame that you have written to Restons making an offer as this will usually be seen as acknowledgment of the debt and restarts the limitations 'clock'. I believe there are ways, usually for 3rd parties to make the offer where it doesn't count as an admission.

However
If there is no CCA and it is from pre 2007 you have two things on your side
S78(6) CCA which doesn't allow enforcement when a request is outstanding , although a reconstituted agreement can suffice
S127(3) which says the agreement must be correctly executed
In that case they( whoever owns the debt now) would have to show a court (on balance) that an agreement in the prescribed format was signed by you.

As you have the SAR there are also all the details of default notices and other things that would aid your case

If there is no CCA it is hopeful that the account could be sold on and maybe, just maybe, your acknowledgement would not be included in the details

Hope that is of some help.

As already asked, who owns the debt now? Is it still HSBC or has it been sold

[Daigoro]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Wow thanks for all the input guys, all info greatly received.

This has been passed thru several collectors (the first 2 were the in house HSBC lot), all successfully seen off with various letters, and now rests with Arrow, who have Restons acting on their behalf. So yes the debt has been sold on at least a couple of times.

Ref the CCA and SAR, the eventual response from HSBC at the time (after months of ignoring) was to send a 'document' with somebody elses details on!!

[MIKE770]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Wow thanks for all the input guys, all info greatly received.

This has been passed thru several collectors (the first 2 were the in house HSBC lot), all successfully seen off with various letters, and now rests with Arrow, who have Restons acting on their behalf. So yes the debt has been sold on at least a couple of times.

Ref the CCA and SAR, the eventual response from HSBC at the time (after months of ignoring) was to send a 'document' with somebody elses details on!!

====

Keep that info safe relating somebody elses?

[Daigoro]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

====

Keep that info safe relating somebody elses?

Yes I thought it was a bit of an own goal by them at the time. They passed the buck soon after I pointed this out to them. Ultimately I didn't consider them to have satisfied the CCA request at the time anyway, and kept pushing for confirmation of whether the agreement did in fact exist, which never came. As I recall the SAR feedback was useless and contained no such agreement.

Should I post up here my latest letter to Restons to assess if I have hurt my cause? And if I don't get a reply soon from Restons should I issue an SAR to them / Arrow?

[Diana M]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

May I ask you some questions to clarify things.

The offer you made to Restons solicitors - did you head it 'Without Prejudice' and did you give them a deadline for acceptance after which it would be withdrawn? If a claim is issued there's a risk that the offer may be used as an admission of liability for the debt so the wording will be important.

Your CCA Request response from HSBC - have you kept a copy of your Request and a copy of what they sent you in response? I'm not sure whether they sent you 'nothing' or a reconstituted unsigned 'something' before finally sending you someone else's credit agreement after a lengthy exchange of correspondence.

Did you send your SAR to HSBC before or after it was assigned to Arrow (or whomever)?

You've referred to it being "sold on at least a couple of times" but sometimes a creditor/bank will simply use a Debt Collection Agency to act on their behalf without actually selling it to them. So is there another debt purchaser that may have owned this account before Arrow? You should have been sent a Notice of Assignment if that was the case.

Have you been receiving Annual Statements of Sums in Arrears?

Di

[Daigoro]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Hi Di,

letter sent recently as per below

.."

Dear Sir/Madam

I write in reference to your recent communication, dated 29/3/2017.

Firstly I must state that I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY.

Please note that there is no evidence that a true signed credit agreement exists in relation to the alleged debt. In spite of many opportunities HSBC Ltd. (and all other agents acting to pursue this alleged debt) have had to clarify this, it has never been confirmed if the document even exists. As such, I have been denied the opportunity to assess my true legal position on the matter, something necessary for me to make a decision regarding making ANY payments towards the demands such as those made in your communications. The importance of this point is increased by the amount demanded. No person can be expected to satisfy unwarranted demands for large sums of money whilst being denied access to a true signed agreement central to the legality of such claims of debt.

You should further note that the amount being demanded is exaggerated due to a number of unlawful increases by HSBC Ltd. This is all verifiable within all relevant documentation kept by myself.

I must therefore request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement, and if you do not hold this, you should confirm if the agreement actually exists or not.

It is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to see such an agreement, and in spite of this nobody has ever been able to produce this or confirm its existence, or lack thereof.

As you are acting on behalf of a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Without this I cannot be expected to enter into any kind of agreement on the basis of unwarranted demands.

For the sake of clarity, may I also draw your attention to the following:
Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175
Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith.

With all this said, I should clarify my position and feelings on this matter, and also on the possibility for a solution for all parties:

This alleged debt, and the associated default notice against my name on the various credit agency databases, is over 7 years old, contains an incorrect figure, and on top of this I have been denied the opportunity to properly settle this matter due to the indifference of those agencies involved. I would, in actuality, be willing to consider a one time payment, as a full and final settlement, to bring this matter to a close, but the amount must be realistic.

I have one other significant debt (greater than the sum demanded here, for rent), I have a low income, dependents, no savings, and no sign of this situation changing for the better in the near future. As a result, any payment made by myself would have to be borrowed, in cash, from friends and family, and would therefore need to be a realistic sum relative to my circumstances (given I still must repay this amount piecemeal).

I am able to borrow £800, and so can offer this amount as a full and final settlement, in exchange for this alleged debt being classified as settled, and a guarantee given that I would no longer be pursued for any outstanding amount based on this account.

Finally, I must insist that any contact by yourselves is to be made in writing only, to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits are not acceptable and would be viewed as harassment. Your implied right of access is hereby removed. This applies to your company, and any company, person or agent acting on your behalf or in relation to this alleged debt. As such, it is now not lawful for you or any representatives of your company to visit this address. Any such visits to this residency will be deemed aggravated trespass, evidence will be taken, the police may be asked to attend and legal action will likely result.

I hope I have brought some clarity to this situation, and sincerely hope that we can work towards an amicable settlement to the matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours sincerely,

Daigoro
"..

Have not had annual statement of account ever, and the only notice of assignment I believe I ever had was from whoever passed it to arrow. I have a large stack of paperwork to process to clarify some of these points, I need to create a bullet list of key points during the whole saga. I have an absolute and complete record of every letter I ever sent, including proof of postages.

As I remember the 'reconstituted agreement' I received wasn't even a form of credit agreement, it was just a random document with the name and address of a complete stranger! The SAR was sent to HSBC in the first instance, when the CCA request wasn't satisfied.

Hope the above helps, and thank you for all the feedback everybody.

[Daigoro]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Afternoon all,

have finally had a response from Restons, playing the 'no signature on your recent communications' card, what is the standard response to this? Not sure how they can threaten with court without signature but not engage in a dialog.

Am not about to sign anything as I don't trust these sharks 1 bit. My next communication will surely also add a time limit to the offer made, not sure why they would drag this out when its clear I am prepared to go ahead with a partial settlement.

[Amethyst]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

It's s stalling obfuscation tactic but just reply and sign the letter. If you are paranoid then use a signature strip thing so it can't be copied - eg. http://legalbeagles.info/library/ant...gnature-strip/

[Daigoro]

Re: Daigoro VS Reston Solicitors

Hello all again!

So, after the above, I decided to go on holiday and then cut restons out and mail Arrow directly about the signature thing and the offer to settle, lo and behold on my return from holiday I now have had court paperwork issued! I have less than a week to respond now, naturally I need to respond with a defence. Any pointers appreciated at this stage. Do I need to have a simple 1 line defence, or can I stack them up?!

Importantly, could anybody recommend any particular threads here that I should be using as my primary research? Theres a lot to go at on this forum!!

To summarize, the alleged agreement is 2004, seemingly no signed agreement in hand anywhere, and I have made an offer of partial settlement that was essentially ignored.

Thanks, Daigoro : )