Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

**Amethyst** · 11th March 2017, 21:06:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Have you communicated directly with the claimant at all about the issue, as well as following the standard CPR 31.14 request for documents ( http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...it-Court-Claim - the CCA request isn't relevant as this is a service agreement ) - you should put them on notice of the issues and the previous litigation on the same account. This isn't quite the same situation as it is purely based on fraud but the gist of it is right - https://consumercreditlitigationandd...s-cpr-27-142g/

I'm not sure I'm with you on the 'move and merge', are the court joining the claims together - I'm not sure they could do that as your previous claim was settled, and presumably the court informed at the point of settlement and the claim withdrawn? Did they settle on issue of the claim or did it go to a hearing ? Did they defend or simply settle your claim ?
[MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION]

**kafkaesque** · 11th March 2017, 21:57:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Hi Amethyst and thank you for your reply.

"Have you communicated directly with the claimant at all about the issue, as well as following the standard CPR 31.14 request for documents ( http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...it-Court-Claim - the CCA request isn't relevant as this is a service agreement ) - you should put them on notice of the issues and the previous litigation on the same account. This isn't quite the same situation as it is purely based on fraud but the gist of it is right - https://consumercreditlitigationandd...s-cpr-27-142g/

I'm not sure I'm with you on the 'move and merge', are the court joining the claims together - I'm not sure they could do that as your previous claim was settled, and presumably the court informed at the point of settlement and the claim withdrawn? Did they settle on issue of the claim or did it go to a hearing ? Did they defend or simply settle your claim ?
@pt2537"

I have written the CPR (thanks to your template!) and will post recorded on Monday.

Currently I can't access my original Money Claim OnLine against Vodafone in 2012 due to login issues.I have had to re-register with MCOL and their IT dept will "move and merge" my old claim to my new MCOL account so I can then hopefully access my 2012 claim against vodafone.

Until then I have no evidence of the original claim - I can only go from memory. AFAIK Vodafone originally defended, then paid the claim as they must of found the phone. I didn't supply anything more except tracking number I think and they paid against the claim.
I have recently contacted Vodafone via there customer service online chat and they still think I owe the money or have the phone. I have these records available if you need. The chat agent also sent some old bills to my email as a pdf attachment. The bills have gone to an old address.

I suspect Vodafone legal hasn't communicated with the rest of Vodafone?

Thank you for the link. Does that mean I can claim costs? how do I calculate them please?

If Lowell have bought the debt why should I deal with vodafone at all?
In preference I wouldn't want to deal with either just the court - is that the wrong way to proceed?

Thanks again.

**pt2537** · 12th March 2017, 12:29:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

If you are certain this claim is for the same account that you litigated and won, then it seems to me this claim may well be an abuse of process.

Now then, dealing with the Claim requires careful planning, the Claimant may well be unaware the account has been litigated, debt purchasers are notoriously stupid in that they never check if there are issues, they just seem to sue and then check later.

I think you need to get as much info from MCOL as you can, and also ask Vodafone for any details they have in writing, once you have requested the documentation from Lowells, and once you have everything from Mcol, then you need to place lowells on notice that they are pissing in the wind, and invite them to witdraw this claim and correct any adverse entry on your credit file etc.

If you dont get a positive response then you may well be open to a strike out application, especially if the evidence supports you case.

**kafkaesque** · 12th March 2017, 13:25:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Originally posted by pt2537 View Post

If you are certain this claim is for the same account that you litigated and won, then it seems to me this claim may well be an abuse of process.

Now then, dealing with the Claim requires careful planning, the Claimant may well be unaware the account has been litigated, debt purchasers are notoriously stupid in that they never check if there are issues, they just seem to sue and then check later.

I think you need to get as much info from MCOL as you can, and also ask Vodafone for any details they have in writing, once you have requested the documentation from Lowells, and once you have everything from Mcol, then you need to place lowells on notice that they are pissing in the wind, and invite them to witdraw this claim and correct any adverse entry on your credit file etc.

If you dont get a positive response then you may well be open to a strike out application, especially if the evidence supports you case.

Thank you for the reply. If I can avoid it I'd rather not deal with thugs (lowell) or the incompetent idiots at vodafone.

Surely if I just present my evidence to the MCOL re my claim in 2012 then it should be automatic in my favour? Also what about costs for a counterclaim with all the stress and hassle this has caused - back in 2012 and now again? I'm off sick at the moment and am really struggling.

I looked up "strike out application" but sorry I'm a layman so still don't understand it - does that mean just cancel there claim?

Thanks again - please let me know if I can get costs.

**pt2537** · 12th March 2017, 15:35:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Originally posted by kafkaesque View Post

Thank you for the reply. If I can avoid it I'd rather not deal with thugs (lowell) or the incompetent idiots at vodafone.

Surely if I just present my evidence to the MCOL re my claim in 2012 then it should be automatic in my favour? Also what about costs for a counterclaim with all the stress and hassle this has caused - back in 2012 and now again? I'm off sick at the moment and am really struggling.

I looked up "strike out application" but sorry I'm a layman so still don't understand it - does that mean just cancel there claim?

Thanks again - please let me know if I can get costs.

Ok well bad news time, your approach wont bring you the results you want, you will need to engage with Lowells im afraid, and possibly vodafone

If youve read my blog article Ame referred to you will have seen the same kind of issue which i had to resolve with the original creditor.

Sadly, errors happen, it may be the case your account was sold in error, it happens, but you need to look at this from Lowells point of view, they may have brought the debt in good faith and may well be of the view the money is owed. If you dont show them its not, how do you expect them to be able to consider withdrawing the claim? further, if you have evidence of the errors , you have a duty to disclose it, if you dont you could end up facing the same result as hoist did in the case i dealt with.

**kafkaesque** · 12th March 2017, 16:21:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

I know errors happen - once. But twice is unacceptable. How can I be responsible for Lowell or Vodafone lacking processes?

Also, I thought the onus was on them to prove I do owe the money?

I am going to show Lowell it is not owed - via my defence in MCOL as I won't be able to access the previous case, prob not until the last night before judgment...

How much costs should I claim for?

**pt2537** · 12th March 2017, 16:47:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Originally posted by kafkaesque View Post

I know errors happen - once. But twice is unacceptable. How can I be responsible for Lowell or Vodafone lacking processes?

Also, I thought the onus was on them to prove I do owe the money?

I am going to show Lowell it is not owed - via my defence in MCOL as I won't be able to access the previous case, prob not until the last night before judgment...

How much costs should I claim for?

Hi

I really dont understand why you are taking such a bizarre stance to this claim, look at it logically, youre blaming lowells for something they may know nothing about, let me tell you theres no love lost between me and companies like lowells, but even i take a step back and look at the bigger picture sometimes.

I understand youre aggrieved about the errors happening twice, but like i said, Lowells may well have brought the account in good faith.

Youre right about the onus being on lowells having to prove the debt is owed, but heres a news flash for you, they could do that quite easily, for example, a witness statement from lowells exhibiting a statement of account from Vodafone showing the debt is outstanding would most likely be enough for the Court to accept the debt was owed. You need to start being a little clever, and less hostile to the idea of actually getting the info you need to prove your case.

Let me tell you that Lowells are no fools, they will know that if you provide clear evidence of your dispute and can show what you said is true then they will undoubtedly withdraw the Claim there and then, so by being pro active you remove the risk of costs being incurred, you dispose of the case without spending too much time on it, and to me thats a far better approach than filing a defence and litigating this case through to trial.

And by providing evidence early, you protect yourself on costs too. To me its a no brainer

**kafkaesque** · 12th March 2017, 20:02:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Thanks for replying and your advice. I am trying to learn so appreciate your help.

If I appear hostile its because like I said I am signed off work with anxiety and depression and these corporations are thugs and bullies. They won't be getting a penny out of me - whatever happens.

I am relocating abroad (one way) within a year, don't own a house, no car and have no assets > so even if I lose at court there is little terror in the threats of CCJ/Baliffs etc. I haven't got anything for them to take

Please can you answer my question re my counter claim? I feel I need to claim for about 80hrs worth of my time, so about £1k is that reasonable?

**pt2537** · 12th March 2017, 20:09:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Originally posted by kafkaesque View Post

Thanks for replying and your advice. I am trying to learn so appreciate your help.

If I appear hostile its because like I said I am signed off work with anxiety and depression and these corporations are thugs and bullies. They won't be getting a penny out of me - whatever happens.

I am relocating abroad (one way) within a year, don't own a house, no car and have no assets > so even if I lose at court there is little terror in the threats of CCJ/Baliffs etc. I haven't got anything for them to take

Please can you answer my question re my counter claim? I feel I need to claim for about 80hrs worth of my time, so about £1k is that reasonable?

The problem is, you arent entitled to claim costs automatically, so a counterclaim would be unwise, to get costs you must apply to the Court once trial is over and ask the Court to order the Claimant to pay your costs.

This is why im trying to steer you to get the info you need now, as it would support a claim for unreasonable conduct, if they were told they had no case yet continued to proceed with the claim.

**kafkaesque** · 13th March 2017, 21:54:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

OK I will think on your advice and report back when I can access the 2012 claim.

**Diana M** · 13th March 2017, 23:10:PM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Originally posted by kafkaesque View Post

OK I will think on your advice and report back when I can access the 2012 claim.

I see no harm in you running a two horse race.

You could file a robust Defence to this claim close to the deadline. It's free to file a Defence.

Prior to that make the Claimant fully aware of your reasons to dispute the claim in correspondence. Stitch them up with a solid paper trail. That will aid your Defence.

Maybe treat the Claim as 'real' for now so send a CPR 31.14 Request to Lowells asking them to produce the documents they intend to rely on.

That way you've covered all bases.

If it's then wise to make an Application to strike out their claim at least you'll have the ammunition you need. You'll need that evidence (ammunition) to defeat this claim.

Right now this claim is a standalone claim.

Send a Subject Access Request to Vodafone asap to get the full history of the account and hopefully that will show the account and a previous claim was sorted light years ago.

If it doesn't then at least you'll know what to do next.

I agree with PT2537 that there may be a breakdown in communication between Vodafone and Lowells but my concern is you need to deal with the claim you're facing where deadlines have been set by the court.

Di

**Diana M** · 14th March 2017, 00:04:AM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Originally posted by kafkaesque View Post

Please can you answer my question re my counter claim? I feel I need to claim for about 80hrs worth of my time, so about £1k is that reasonable?

I'll have a go at answering your question.

Was that 80 hours spent fighting/defending/defeating the claim made by Vodafone?

Common sense says Lowells may not be held responsible (in legal terms) for Vodafone's conduct.

When the claim was Discontinued by Vodafone (assuming that was the outcome) did you ask them to compensate you for your time/stress/inconvenience?

If it was in 2012 you my have missed the boat to refer it to the Ombudsnman, but let's explore all avenues since if (and I mean if ) Vodafone recently sold the account knowing (or should have known) that it was settled then you may (and I mean may ) have another opportunity to make a noise about Vodafone's conduct if it's the first time you've become aware of the issue.

This forum has an Authorised Representative from Vodafone so why not send them a PM and see where that leads http://legalbeagles.info/forums/memb...ne-Company-Rep

Di

**kafkaesque** · 14th March 2017, 09:51:AM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Hi Diana

Thank you for your replies - much appreciated. I'll answer what I can at the moment.

I have sent a PM to the vodafone rep just asking if they are still around as on the profile it states Last Activity16th December 2016 15:58:PM.

Yesterday I posted the CPR asking Lowell's for a copy of 'the agreement'.

Re the claim in 2012 I only claimed for the £25 MCOL fee. It was my first MCOL and I was just happy to get my money back after countless wasted hours trying to deal with the outsourced/off shored/tax-dodging/kafkaesque behemoth aka Vodafone.
I felt this was the only way and was relieved it actually worked in getting my money back so no I didn't ask for any compensation.

Is there a template for an SAR please? Can I email it to Vodafone?

Also(except the CPR) I don't feel I can start communicating with Lowell's without access to the 2012 claim... without evidence it isn't going to matter what I say is it?

Thank you again for your advice.

**Diana M** · 14th March 2017, 11:42:AM

Re: Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD

Originally posted by kafkaesque View Post

I have sent a PM to the vodafone rep just asking if they are still around as on the profile it states Last Activity16th December 2016 15:58:PM.

That's why I suggested a PM because in theory that should trigger an email alert to Lee at Vodafone.

If you make contact you can ask him to provide you with information about the closure of your account following the claim being discontinued (if it was discontinued) in 2012.

I can see he's helped a couple of other members with Lowell claims in the past.

You can tag him so he'll see a link to your thread >
@Lee Vodafone Company Rep

Di

Kafkaesque v LOWEL PORTFOLIO I LTD