PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

[brigo]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Can any body tell me what happens if PRA win the case and I have to pay within 28 days ? ( which would be impossible).

Will I still have an option to pay by affordable installments ?

Just thought it best to be prepared if I have to take action quickly.

Brigo

[nemesis45]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Can any body tell me what happens if PRA win the case and I have to pay within 28 days ? ( which would be impossible).

Will I still have an option to pay by affordable installments ?

Just thought it best to be prepared if I have to take action quickly.

Brigo

Yes you will have the opportunity to negotiate a payment plan and you could offer this secured by a " Tomlin / Consent order in which no CCJ is made and the claim is stayed as long as the payments are made any breach of the order enables the claimant to seek judgment immediately.
nem

[Diana M]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Can any body tell me what happens if PRA win the case and I have to pay within 28 days ? ( which would be impossible).

Will I still have an option to pay by affordable installments ?

If PRA win the case the CCJ is likely to be a 'forthwith' order which means pay up "now". Some CCJs will say 14 days or 28 days depending on what's decided in court at the time.

If you pay the whole sum within 28 days it won't be registered on Trust Online or any of the CRA files.

If you can't afford to pay the whole sum stated on the CCJ within the timeframe stated on the CCJ then you can apply to the court to vary the Order to an instalment Order where the amount you must pay will be decided on production of your Income & Expenditure form.

If you don't pay the amount stated on the CCJ then the Claimant can seek enforcement action such as bailiffs or an Attachment of Earnings (unless you're not working or self-employed)

Yes you will have the opportunity to negotiate a payment plan and you could offer this secured by a " Tomlin / Consent order in which no CCJ is made and the claim is stayed as long as the payments are made

If PRA win the case (which is what the OP is asking about in their question) there is no possibility of a Tomlin Order because there would already be a CCJ.

Di

[Joanna C]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Yes you will have the opportunity to negotiate a payment plan and you could offer this secured by a " Tomlin / Consent order in which no CCJ is made and the claim is stayed as long as the payments are made any breach of the order enables the claimant to seek judgment immediately.
nem

This is not correct advice Nemesis45 because Judgment would already have been entered by the court. A Tomlin Order would have to be entered into before Judgment was handed down by the District Judge.

However as the Judgment would be entered after a trial/hearing then it will not reflect on the OP's credit history or the registry trust however long it takes to pay unless the claimant has to take steps to enforce the order or the OP makes an application to vary the amount etc. Therefore if the OP can agree payment terms without any variation to the original order then it will not reflect on the OP's credit history.

The exception to the above is if the District Judge makes an order at the time Judgment is entered (i.e. at the hearing) allowing for instalments. Then it does show on the credit file and on Registry Trust immediately.

[nemesis45]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

gov.uk/countycourt-judgment-ccj-for-debt-and-your-credit-rating

[Amethyst]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Hi Jo,

On this part

Therefore if the OP can agree payment terms without any variation to the original order then it will not reflect on the OP's credit history.

I'm not sure if I am understanding what you have said correctly. If negotiation after a CCJ has been awarded allows for the forthwith judgment to stand but the defendant can pay by installment - the CCJ would go onto the file UNLESS the negotiation allowed for the claimant informing the court that the CCJ was settled? ( and not sure why the claimant would agree to that as the CCJ is their security on the debt allowing future enforcement).

This is my understanding of it. If the CCJ is awarded to the claimant then it would be payable within 28 days ( if a forthwith order) As Nemesis says you could apply to vary/redetermine the order to monthly payments - however the CCJ would be registered and show on your credit file for six years. The only way to avoid the CCJ being registered is to either pay it before the 28 days, or negotiate before a CCJ is awarded ( and put in place a Tomlin/Consent order - this allows you to make payments while the case is held in the court, and allows the claimant to get the CCJ if you should default on those payments) Once a CCJ is awarded the only way to have it removed ( other than paying within 28 days) is to apply to court to set aside the CCJ - and if you have defended the claim and lost, then you wouldn't have that option open to you.

[Joanna C]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Hi Amethyst


"I'm not sure if I am understanding what you have said correctly. If negotiation after a CCJ has been awarded allows for the forthwith judgment to stand but the defendant can pay by installment - the CCJ would go onto the file UNLESS the negotiation allowed for the claimant informing the court that the CCJ was settled? ( and not sure why the claimant would agree to that as the CCJ is their security on the debt allowing future enforcement)."

No problem - even the creditors don't understand it either (thankfully as they would be less likely to if they did ).

1. After a trial/hearing there is no requirement for the Claimant to notify the court when the Judgment debt is paid. It is only if they make an application to the court to enforce the Judgment (thereby notifying the court that the Judgment monies have not been paid) that the court would even notify Registry Online of the Judgment.


2. The only Judgments that are automatically sent by the court to the Registry Trust to be registered on your credit history are Default Judgments and admissions. If these judgments are not paid within 30 days (or a month) then the Judgment will stay on the defendant’s credit history for 6 years. If paid within the month then the judgment will be cancelled on the Register and removed from the credit history.


3. If Judgment is handed down by the court at the end of a trial or at a hearing for say £4,000 then if the order is silent on when it is to be paid it would be due within 14 days, or the court may order 21 or 29 days. The order is not automatically sent to Registry online at this point. There has to be some further action taken by either the claimant or the defendant in relation to the Judgment debt.


4. If the Defendant after the trial/hearing approaches the claimant and say for example informally agrees (without a consent order being signed) that they can pay the Judgment order of £4,000 over say 12 months by standing order then neither party has taken steps to either vary/enforce the order and as long as the payments are made the Judgment will not be sent by the court to Registry Online. The claimant still has the security of the Judgment that can be enforced if the defendant misses an instalment but the Defendant has the benefit that the Judgment will stay off their credit history.


5. If the Defendant pays the Judgment monies within the time period stipulated by the court , then again nothing is sent to Registry online


6. If the Defendant doesn't pay the Judgment monies and the creditor does not take any steps to enforce the Judgment (i.e bailiffs, attachment of earnings etc) then again until the creditor does take the step the Judgment won't be sent to Registry online.


7. If the OP makes an application to the court to vary the Judgment AFTER a trial/contested hearing then at that point the Judgment will be sent to Registry Online.

[Joanna C]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

"As Nemesis says you could apply to vary/redetermine the order to monthly payments"


Hi Amethyst


I can’t see the post where Nemesis said this?


Diana M at post # 48 said “If you can't afford to pay the whole sum stated on the CCJ within the timeframe stated on the CCJ then you can apply to the court to vary the Order to an instalment Order where the amount you must pay will be decided on production of your Income & Expenditure form.”


You are quite correct in your understanding that if the defendant did make this application then this would trigger the registration of the County Court Judgment. This is why I clarified Di’s post to advise of steps that a Defendant could take to avoid this if they were proactive and negotiated the informal payment plan.


Obviously if the court proceedings have been particularly contentious perhaps by the sending by the Defendant of aggressive and hostile correspondence to say the CEO of the claimant company or their solicitors then this would prejudice any such negotiation should it be required. It is more likely in such situations that they would insist on any such agreement being formalized which would ensure the County Court Judgment is on the Defendants history for the next six years.

[Amethyst]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Ahh nope that was Di. I was skim reading a bit.

I just wanted to clear up that if you apply to vary/redetermine after a CCJ was awarded it would show on your credit file unless the whole CCJ was paid up within 28 days (or set aside) ....regardless of what arrangements you come to with the claimant.

3. If Judgment is handed down by the court at the end of a trial or at a hearing for say £4,000 then if the order is silent on when it is to be paid it would be due within 14 days, or the court may order 21 or 29 days. The order is not automatically sent to Registry online at this point. There has to be some further action taken by either the claimant or the defendant in relation to the Judgment debt.

If the Defendant after the trial/hearing approaches the claimant and say for example informally agrees (without a consent order being signed) that they can pay the Judgment order of £4,000 over say 12 months by standing order then neither party has taken steps to either vary/enforce the order and as long as the payments are made the Judgment will not be sent by the court to Registry Online. The claimant still has the security of the Judgment that can be enforced if the defendant misses an instalment but the Defendant has the benefit that the Judgment will stay off their credit history.

Isn't something I was aware of.

[Amethyst]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Brigo, I was just reading this on another thread and thought it might be useful for you to have a look - all this talk of tomlin/consent orders - this is the kind of agreement we're on about.

At the minute PRA just don't have the agreement so you don't need to worry about it, it's just an option if you decide you didn't want to go through the court process should anything change later on.

[brigo]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Thank you all very much for your input and advice its good to know my options if the worst happens

Brigo

[brigo]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

Today recieved sar information from MBNA .

All I can say is to me its just a load of paperwork that I dont understand .

Could some kind person advise me as to what I should be looking for because its beyond me........

Brigo

[Amethyst]

Re: PRA GROUP V's BRIGO

How you doing with this [MENTION=97596]brigo[/MENTION] ? ( came back across your thread looking for something else - apologies for missing your post about your SAR return )

Ref the other subject on judgments being put on the register ref Jo's earlier post see 8 and 9c of The Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines Regulations 2005